HIGH SPEED GEAR STRIPAGE (56k warning)

[mateba]

I have read threw a few of ROF setup threads but some of them did not finish completely, people just stop posting. In this thread, http://forums.airsoftmechanics.com/i...hp?topic=282.0 , short stroking was recommended but results were not given. I would like to know more about an alternative to short stroking. I am already using a 330-340FPS spring and would not like to loose much more FPS. I'm getting a good ROF but I would like more and I have now gone through a second set of gears in about 600 rounds. :-[ I have also seen a few thread on angle of engagement, http://www.airsoftforum.com/board/in...howtopic=97416 , but I don't understand this concept or how to apply it properly. PLEASE HELP!!

SP90 spring
type 2 cylinder
swiss cheesed piston (~15g w/ POM head)
Systema high speed motor
9.6v 2000mah
SW-Computer
6mm bushings

Currently the AEG shoots around 25rps but I would like 30+, 35rps would be ideal. How far can this be taken before I find myself in my MB, replacing gears and pistons not maintenance, every other month? Anybody, experienced with rof (low FPS) setups please, SCHOOL ME!

My sector gears and spur gears contacting teeth are starting to bend toward each other. In my last set the spur teeth look as if they were wiped side ways. The pictures are of my first set which looks to be a much worse result but caused by the same problems. This wear is another kind weird.

I checked out my bushings and gear axles and I don't see anything that stands out. I might not be good I seeing the problem though. If you see anything that look fishy, each picture of bushings has a number above it.






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sorry about some of the quality. I did this with what I have, a webcam.


I don't want to just trial an error my way through anymore sets of gears. If TM gears can't handle the load I'll have the use another set that cost 3x the price os TM. I'll use Prometheus high speed gears when things are sorted out but I can't replace those, to expensive.

Side note: will the high speed gears change the AoE since they have a different ratio/number of teeth? By how much?

PLEASE HELP!!!

mateba

[Phil_Black]

It seems that you are using standard ratio gears.

You shoud use high speed gears.

In my m4 i use this setup

Sp 90
modify high speed gears
Motor G&P m 120 high speed
Modify piston
Modify piston head
Metal bushing

All that running on a 8.4volts 1100mah batt.

I dont know the BPS but i was matching up with my freind m4. he was running on a 9.6 v bat, Magnum motor, etc.

[Naglfar]

Use bearings, use a weaker spring and shim them properly this time.
I know you incorrectly shimmed them because only half of each tooth was stripped, you aren't giving the gears maximum contact. Though about what Phil just said, I don't know whether those are standard or high speed for sure.

[CDN_Stalker]

You know that the higher the rate of fire, the higher the rate of wear, right?

[Tankdude]

Originally Posted by Naglfar

I know you incorrectly shimmed them because only half of each tooth was stripped, you aren't giving the gears maximum contact.

+1

[mateba]

Originally Posted by Naglfar

Use bearings, use a weaker spring and shim them properly this time.
I know you incorrectly shimmed them because only half of each tooth was stripped, you aren't giving the gears maximum contact. Though about what Phil just said, I don't know whether those are standard or high speed for sure.

Are TM gears compatible with King Arms bearings? I had issues with them and Systema bearings. I know the first set was off. The sector gear had too much side to side play and was too high off the spur gear. The second time around I thought I had it right. The SP90 spring is a 1J spring (330-340 pre-settled) if that too strong? I'll try TM gears again.

Originally Posted by CDN_Stalker

You know that the higher the rate of fire, the higher the rate of wear, right?

Not in 600 rounds time. Thats a little too fast.

[Nova316]

your suppose to shim the gears to reduce the side to side play....
Stick those thin O metal rings between the gears and bearings so when u close the gearbox (without the entire upper cylinder set) with a few screws in theres no side to side play, and it can spin freely

[mateba]

Originally Posted by Phil_Black

It seems that you are using standard ratio gears.

You shoud use high speed gears.

In my m4 i use this setup

Sp 90
modify high speed gears
Motor G&P m 120 high speed
Modify piston
Modify piston head
Metal bushing

All that running on a 8.4volts 1100mah batt.

I dont know the BPS but i was matching up with my freind m4. he was running on a 9.6 v bat, Magnum motor, etc.

You are running a ridiculously small/low voltage and amperage battery for a high speed setup. We have pretty similar spec though.

[mateba]

Originally Posted by Nova316

your suppose to shim the gears to reduce the side to side play....
Stick those thin O metal rings between the gears and bearings so when u close the gearbox (without the entire upper cylinder set) with a few screws in theres no side to side play, and it can spin freely

yes, i understand the concept of shimming. There was no to very little movement when I stopped shimming the second set. The first set needed work and I didn't double check myself. I assumed I had it right from when I did months ago.

Could there be a possibility that the bushings are bad? If there a way to check this other than looking and guessing?

[CDN_Stalker]

Originally Posted by mateba

Are TM gears compatible with King Arms bearings? I had issues with them and Systema bearings. I know the first set was off. The sector gear had too much side to side play and was too high off the spur gear. The second time around I thought I had it right. The SP90 spring is a 1J spring (330-340 pre-settled) if that too strong? I'll try TM gears again.



Not in 600 rounds time. Thats a little too fast.

Yes, usually it's the piston that gives out first. But was point out that he shimmed it incorrectly.

Shimming correctly is MORE than just the relationship between the gears and the mechbox, proper shimming also is the relationship between the gears themselves to make sure they get maximum tooth mesh but with enough clearance between the gears themselves.

[mateba]

Yes, I thought I had it pretty close I had one of the thinnest shims under my sector gear.

Anybody know about TM gears and bearings? King Arms bearings?

That damage is pretty severe, do you guys think it could be more than incorrect shimming?

[Nova316]

Did u take out the top part of the gearbox (Cylinder/piston/spring/tapplet plate... those) Then put in 2-3 screws into the gearbox, stick your finger into cylinder hole and try spinning the gears? they should spin very freely.. yet have no side to side play.

If u want to get highspeed i dont think theres much difference in bearings

[Amos]

Originally Posted by mateba

Yes, I thought I had it pretty close I had one of the thinnest shims under my sector gear.

Anybody know about TM gears and bearings? King Arms bearings?

That damage is pretty severe, do you guys think it could be more than incorrect shimming?

All gears should fit all bearings...

You shouldn't be using TM gears in a high-speed set up... You should look at a set of guarder, or Systema Helical High-speed (The systema would probably be your best bet, but I've never made a high-speed set up; so I don't have first-hand experience.)

[Phil_Black]

When i was researching for my high speed setup i had to think abour the shimming and the wear ont the gears.

This is why i choose modify modular gear set.

No shimming and gears are in the perfect timming. As mentioned the piston was the first peice to break down. But i fired at least 10 000 rounds befor it happened.

the gears were showing no sign of wear, they are rock solid. And if you dont want to have to worry about shimming ther are perfect.

http://www.airsoftparts.ca/store2/in...roducts_id=690

and your right about the low power batt.

so using a 9.6v will give you what your looking for. (up to 30 BPS)

[ILLusion]

Originally Posted by Naglfar

Use bearings, use a weaker spring and shim them properly this time.
I know you incorrectly shimmed them because only half of each tooth was stripped, you aren't giving the gears maximum contact. Though about what Phil just said, I don't know whether those are standard or high speed for sure.

No, don't use a weaker spring. If you go with a weaker spring, the piston may not return to battery fast enough, causing the sector gear to crash in to the piston rack. Anything in the gear train can be destroyed at that point.

I also recommend using bearings and high speed gears.

Make note: stock gears (especially Tokyo Marui) will NOT fit in to ball bearing bushings - regardless of the brand of the bearings.