HIGH SPEED GEAR STRIPAGE (56k warning)

[mateba]

Originally Posted by Amos

All gears should fit all bearings...

You shouldn't be using TM gears in a high-speed set up... You should look at a set of guarder, or Systema Helical High-speed (The systema would probably be your best bet, but I've never made a high-speed set up; so I don't have first-hand experience.)

I ruined a set off Systema bearings with TM gears. They are not compatible. But I would like to know what brand others have put them in. I understand TM gears are not designed for upgraded gun but I don't want to tear up Promy gears due to a lack of knowledge. I knew this would be trial and error since their is no clear-cut concept to reliable high speed setups. You just diagnose the issue and react.

Originally Posted by Nova316

Did u take out the top part of the gearbox (Cylinder/piston/spring/tapplet plate... those) Then put in 2-3 screws into the gearbox, stick your finger into cylinder hole and try spinning the gears? they should spin very freely.. yet have no side to side play.

If u want to get highspeed i dont think theres much difference in bearings

Bearing would make a difference, they cause much less resistance than bushings and I do intend on getting a MB with bearings but I wasn't ready at the moment. The difference can be 2-3 RPS. And, yes! I took out my compression assembly to spin the gears while I was shimming. How else would you shim?

Need help! And does anyone know if TM gears will fit in King Arms bearings?

[ILLusion]

Originally Posted by mateba

Need help! And does anyone know if TM gears will fit in King Arms bearings?[/B][/U]

See the post just before yours (last post on previous page). Like I said, NO brand of ball bearing bushings will fit on Marui gears. They also will not fit on G&P gears.

You'd pretty much have to get a quality aftermarket gear set if you want to use ball bearings. For the sake of durability and testing, you my want to go with a cheap gear set like Guarder gears till you get things sorted out before going with a quality gear set like Prometheus. At least the steel Guarder gears will be strong enough to last through testing and also show you if you it's the gears that are messed up or if your setup is incorrect elsewhere. If you still manage to strip a Guarder gear set, then there's something wrong with the setup.

Is there ANY wear on the first 3 contact teeth of the piston? Are there any scratch marks on the face of the piston? (by "face", I mean the flat surface that faces down towards the gears that shouldn't have any contact with the sector gear.)

[mateba]

All right I think I have made up my mind here.

KA 7mm or 8mm AK MB
do you know if they come with the bearing already set?

Guarder flat gears
High Speeds are +$2, should I risk the confound? I intend to use Prometheus high speed gears eventually.

G&P HP 3 metal tooth piston
it seems they have 3 or so pistons named the same (the picture show the white one but I got the blue last time.)

Shim Brand other that Systema?
not thin enough. Anyone use Deep Fire?

Anyone used or heard things about the HurricanE gears?


This sucks, I can't trust my MB and I don't want to buy another 6mm to just put bushings in it, so I can use TM gears, and then still want a 8mm later.

thanks for the advice

[ILLusion]

Yeah, those King Arms gearboxes come with the bearings.

For accurate installation of those bearings (and any bearing or bushing for that matter), I'd suggest contacting Airsoft Innovations and purchasing their Bushing Insertion Tool. It allows for perpendicular alignment of the bushing/bearing during installation and relieves all pressure off the fragile inner races of bearings.
http://www.airsoft-innovations.com/BushingPress.html

As for the Guarder gears, might as well pick up the high speed set. If your ultimate goal is on that path, you can help kill two birds with one stone by troubleshooting with the proper gear ratio.

[mateba]

the King Arms MB don't come with the bearing already in the shells?

Shoot! thats a huge pain. Thanks for the suggestions and advice. I think I will try to get a 8mm MB and some Guarder HS gears.

thanks

[ILLusion]

Why is it such an issue whether the bearings are already in the shells or not? They're not THAT difficult to install...

Shimming them, however, requires extreme precision. Shimming of bearings has to be very accurate compared to bushings. It's easy to get fooled on how well they're shimmed because the bearings rotate on their own.

Failure to shim bearings properly can cause them to explode... which would destroy everything else in your gearbox. :P

[Kos-Mos]

+1

I have a lot of shimming to do on my 10 years old RC car. Only .015 off and your bearing will generate a lot of heat, and the ball will crack.

You might want to spend at least 1 hour just shimming, to make sure you get the PERFECT setup.

Also, Bearing install can be easier. If you heat up the mechbox a bit with a heatgun, the hole gets looser. You must make sure the bearing is seated perfectly because if has more chances to be wrong since there is more space.

If you have an old set of gears, you can use them to install the bearings. Place then in the hole, the the whole assembly in place and tap gently on the opposite side of the gear to set it in place. Be carefull to stay alligned, or you will damage both the mechbox and the bearing.

[Non Credo]

11.1 lipo, deans connectors, bypass fuse, keep the systema turbo, take 4 teeth off front of the front of the sector gear in a set of Pheonix Super High Cycle gears, (redwolf has them in), use a dremel tool for that, Angel Chopayya (sp) piston, (good luck finding one), tougher spring, will have to just test and cut coils off if over any fps limits, and as for swiss cheesing pistons... Bah! It does nothing noticeable. Ive also not noticed any difference in swapping out piston heads for a lighter one. And that will melt your switch. Just to let you know...

If that doesnt put you over 30 rps, I will eat my hat.

edit: oh and yeah.... shimming is important too.... AND GEAR & CYLINDER GREASE. USE IT.
Hurricanes high speeds are good gears, as are Modify high speed ratios. But the Pheonix ones... they are great gears.

[ILLusion]

Originally Posted by Kos-Mos

If you have an old set of gears, you can use them to install the bearings. Place then in the hole, the the whole assembly in place and tap gently on the opposite side of the gear to set it in place. Be carefull to stay alligned, or you will damage both the mechbox and the bearing.

I wouldn't particularly recommend that method, as you'd be striking the inner race.

MadMax's bushing installation tool is the best solution I've seen to date as it contacts ONLY the outer casing.

[mateba]

Originally Posted by ILLusion

Why is it such an issue whether the bearings are already in the shells or not? They're not THAT difficult to install...

Shimming them, however, requires extreme precision. Shimming of bearings has to be very accurate compared to bushings. It's easy to get fooled on how well they're shimmed because the bearings rotate on their own.

Failure to shim bearings properly can cause them to explode... which would destroy everything else in your gearbox. :P

1, I would rather not buy the tool
2, I have never done this
3, I having a really bad experience with airsoft right now and I second guessing my own abilities.

The shimming isn't the issue. I can get .025 stainless shims if its really necessary. I know just because I've got the gear it means I'll be fine. But I do have the patience.

If you have any advice I'll take it. A mentor in airsoft is priceless. In my area, there is not a single MB guru. I fend for myself, along with my one friend that has been at this for years, on the internet.

anyway, thanks I really appreciate you taking the time,
mateba

Originally Posted by Non Credo

11.1 lipo, deans connectors, bypass fuse, keep the systema turbo, take 4 teeth off front of the front of the sector gear in a set of Pheonix Super High Cycle gears, (redwolf has them in), use a dremel tool for that, Angel Chopayya (sp) piston, (good luck finding one), tougher spring, will have to just test and cut coils off if over any fps limits, and as for swiss cheesing pistons... Bah! It does nothing noticeable. Ive also not noticed any difference in swapping out piston heads for a lighter one. And that will melt your switch. Just to let you know...

If that doesnt put you over 30 rps, I will eat my hat.

edit: oh and yeah.... shimming is important too.... AND GEAR & CYLINDER GREASE. USE IT.
Hurricanes high speeds are good gears, as are Modify high speed ratios. But the Pheonix ones... they are great gears.

yeah, 12.5v (charged) batteries and $200US+ of internals sounds like something I want to venture into. Thanks for the advice though.

[Non Credo]

Originally Posted by mateba

yeah, 12.5v (charged) batteries and $200US+ of internals sounds like something I want to venture into.

I know, right? It would be so awesome. you should mos def go for it.

[Kos-Mos]

Originally Posted by ILLusion

I wouldn't particularly recommend that method, as you'd be striking the inner race.

MadMax's bushing installation tool is the best solution I've seen to date as it contacts ONLY the outer casing.

Actually no, since most bearing are made a tiny bit smaller in the center than outside.

Plus, if there is NO shims, the gear side will be applying force to the outer of the bearing evenly.

[ILLusion]

Originally Posted by Kos-Mos

Actually no, since most bearing are made a tiny bit smaller in the center than outside.

Plus, if there is NO shims, the gear side will be applying force to the outer of the bearing evenly.

Exactly my point... the inner race is smaller than the outside.

Last time I checked, the bottom axles of the sector gear and bevel gear didn't have a diameter greater than 8mm, and neither do the top axles of the spur gear and sector gear - so I don't see how the gear would bear any pressure on the OUTER casing...
By striking the gear's axle against the bearing, you're essentially transferring the force on to the bearing's inner race and relying on that force to press the entire bearing in? Great way to split the bearings...

[Kos-Mos]

You don't have to hammer down the gears the way they used to be... one at the time, you can take, say the bevel's large side and place all your bearings with it.

[Syn]

hey just wanted to add these links. It is a how to with nice pics: http://popularairsoft.com/stories/piston-short-stroking
http://www.interq.or.jp/tokyo/akishi...y/spt/sptg.htm


I'm going to be short stroking (grinding only though) because my male piston will probably have a premature engagement problem haha . deepfire full metal rack + modify gearset. I have to check the AOE angle and see what I'm going to grind down first.