Lipo warm

graff · April 25th, 2015, 08:49

I have a stock Ares Amoeba that has the original green chip in it (not sure that matters). I have programmed the gearbox to use 2 cell lipo. Everything in the gun is stock, all i've done is change to XT60 connectors. Motor height adjusted to where it sounds the best.

Using a Turnigy 7.4v 1200mAh 15c-25c after a mid cap worth of rapid semi only shooting the lipo is warm. It's not what I would call hot but slightly warmer then room temp. There is no puffing and the shrink wrap (for lack of a better term) on the outside of the lipo is still tight. I have 2 of the same lipos and happens with both.

My thinking and from what I've read is that the battery isn't providing enough current for the motor?

Possible solutions without opening gearbox - higher rated lipo? better quality motor? stick with 9.6v nimh?

Spike · April 25th, 2015, 09:31

Jam as much C rating worth of battery as you can into your gun. You are correct, the gun is drawing too much power for that little battery to put out. Most people don't realize that most guns, even stock, draw way more amps than they assume.

ThunderCactus · April 25th, 2015, 11:35

The issue isn't that you're not providing enough amperage for the motor. It's that you're not providing enough amperage for the motor start.
Semi causes some pretty impressive amp spikes, full auto is actually more electrically efficient.

So you're just exceeding the amp capacity of the battery on startup.
So you either need to get a new motor that draws less amperage, or a new battery with higher C rating.

Spike · April 25th, 2015, 11:46

I found a PDF one time where someone took measurements of amp spikes with (I think) a stock CYMA AK. They went up to like, 50A or something crazy during semi auto fire.

Does anyone have that link? I was stupid and didn't save it when I found it.

ThunderCactus · April 25th, 2015, 12:24

Well if you want to get super sciency, there's a point during a motor's startup phase where it's technically drawing infinite amperage.
Most motors spike in the 40-90A range on startup. Some batteries just take it better than others. For example my 15-30C 1200mah batts on my ptw have no issues doing rapid semi auto and those motors draw 18A in full auto, so it's likely spiking pretty high on startup.

lurkingknight · April 25th, 2015, 20:20

It's easier to think of C as the size of pipeline to a big water tank... if your thirst (motor) is asking for more water you can only get so much of it through a narrower pipe.... but with a bigger pipe, the tank empties faster.

This is why good techs will tell you more C and mAH is desirable in a lipo. Too narrow of a pipe is greater electrical resistance, which will create heat. If your load is too great, even momentarily for the startup, long term usage like that can cause damage to the cells. When the cells start to break down they will start to outgass and swell.

If you can't fit mah, get C, if you can't fit either, change the battery configuration or location so you can. This is why I keep telling people with massively upgraded m4s to stop using buffertube lipos... most of them can't supply the 100+A of startup current needed for big neo motors.

graff · April 25th, 2015, 20:43

Full stock and massive lipo it is! Thanks for the info guys.

ThunderCactus · April 26th, 2015, 00:19

You should be able to fit a 45c 1300mah pack at the very least in the honey badger though. Unless its not the honey badger youre talking about?

graff · April 26th, 2015, 01:23

Not the honey badger in this case. It's the 009. Has a crane stock.

ThunderCactus · April 26th, 2015, 12:55

That weird battle axe stock? You can't fit a big lipo in there?

graff · April 26th, 2015, 22:02

Not from my initial look. That bottom compartment has the adjustment lever jammed into a fair part of it. I'll look again though. And the two side tubes are barely finger width.

Azathoth · April 27th, 2015, 00:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spike

I found a PDF one time where someone took measurements of amp spikes with (I think) a stock CYMA AK. They went up to like, 50A or something crazy during semi auto fire.

Does anyone have that link? I was stupid and didn't save it when I found it.

I dont have the direct link but it's on airsoftmechanics.com guy named gandalf wrote that up.

Kos-Mos · April 28th, 2015, 12:12

Handled that stock.

You should be able to fit a 2000mah/20C PEQ LiPo in there.

We fitted a 1600mah 20C 3 cell without issue...

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April 25th, 2015, 08:49	#1
graff Trader rating Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Ont	Lipo warm I have a stock Ares Amoeba that has the original green chip in it (not sure that matters). I have programmed the gearbox to use 2 cell lipo. Everything in the gun is stock, all i've done is change to XT60 connectors. Motor height adjusted to where it sounds the best. Using a Turnigy 7.4v 1200mAh 15c-25c after a mid cap worth of rapid semi only shooting the lipo is warm. It's not what I would call hot but slightly warmer then room temp. There is no puffing and the shrink wrap (for lack of a better term) on the outside of the lipo is still tight. I have 2 of the same lipos and happens with both. My thinking and from what I've read is that the battery isn't providing enough current for the motor? Possible solutions without opening gearbox - higher rated lipo? better quality motor? stick with 9.6v nimh? Last edited by graff; April 25th, 2015 at 09:23..

April 25th, 2015, 09:31	#2
Spike Privateer Airsoft Trader rating Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Beaverbank, NS	Jam as much C rating worth of battery as you can into your gun. You are correct, the gun is drawing too much power for that little battery to put out. Most people don't realize that most guns, even stock, draw way more amps than they assume. __________________ I change primaries like other people change socks.

April 25th, 2015, 11:46	#4
Spike Privateer Airsoft Trader rating Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Beaverbank, NS	I found a PDF one time where someone took measurements of amp spikes with (I think) a stock CYMA AK. They went up to like, 50A or something crazy during semi auto fire. Does anyone have that link? I was stupid and didn't save it when I found it. __________________ I change primaries like other people change socks.

April 25th, 2015, 11:35	#3
ThunderCactus Not Eye Safe, Pretty Boy Maximus on the field take his picture! Trader rating Join Date: Feb 2007	The issue isn't that you're not providing enough amperage for the motor. It's that you're not providing enough amperage for the motor start. Semi causes some pretty impressive amp spikes, full auto is actually more electrically efficient. So you're just exceeding the amp capacity of the battery on startup. So you either need to get a new motor that draws less amperage, or a new battery with higher C rating.

April 25th, 2015, 12:24	#5
ThunderCactus Not Eye Safe, Pretty Boy Maximus on the field take his picture! Trader rating Join Date: Feb 2007	Well if you want to get super sciency, there's a point during a motor's startup phase where it's technically drawing infinite amperage. Most motors spike in the 40-90A range on startup. Some batteries just take it better than others. For example my 15-30C 1200mah batts on my ptw have no issues doing rapid semi auto and those motors draw 18A in full auto, so it's likely spiking pretty high on startup.

April 25th, 2015, 20:20	#6
lurkingknight "bb bukakke" KING! Trader rating Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Ottawa	It's easier to think of C as the size of pipeline to a big water tank... if your thirst (motor) is asking for more water you can only get so much of it through a narrower pipe.... but with a bigger pipe, the tank empties faster. This is why good techs will tell you more C and mAH is desirable in a lipo. Too narrow of a pipe is greater electrical resistance, which will create heat. If your load is too great, even momentarily for the startup, long term usage like that can cause damage to the cells. When the cells start to break down they will start to outgass and swell. If you can't fit mah, get C, if you can't fit either, change the battery configuration or location so you can. This is why I keep telling people with massively upgraded m4s to stop using buffertube lipos... most of them can't supply the 100+A of startup current needed for big neo motors. __________________ I futz with V2s, V3s and V6s. I could be wrong... but probably, most likely not, as far as I know.

April 25th, 2015, 20:43	#7
graff Trader rating Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Ont	Full stock and massive lipo it is! Thanks for the info guys.

April 26th, 2015, 00:19	#8
ThunderCactus Not Eye Safe, Pretty Boy Maximus on the field take his picture! Trader rating Join Date: Feb 2007	You should be able to fit a 45c 1300mah pack at the very least in the honey badger though. Unless its not the honey badger youre talking about?

April 26th, 2015, 01:23	#9
graff Trader rating Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Ont	Not the honey badger in this case. It's the 009. Has a crane stock.

April 26th, 2015, 12:55	#10
ThunderCactus Not Eye Safe, Pretty Boy Maximus on the field take his picture! Trader rating Join Date: Feb 2007	That weird battle axe stock? You can't fit a big lipo in there?

April 26th, 2015, 22:02	#11
graff Trader rating Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Ont	Not from my initial look. That bottom compartment has the adjustment lever jammed into a fair part of it. I'll look again though. And the two side tubes are barely finger width.

Lipo warm

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