Tanaka M700 AICS won't fire

[voorhees -FWA-]

Hey all I just got this rifle in a trade and it was stated that this rifle came from Illusion from about 4 months ago.. or something, but, it's having some issues.

To start, I'm not completely new to gas systems; I have KWA, WE, and SRC and piston driven sniper rifle experience, but this is the first time I've ever worked on a gas sniper rifle.

The magazine was leaking, which was made known to me before the trade. Took it apart and the reservoir body was bulged out (due to propane being used from investing online). I straightened it out with a metal shaping hammer and a block of wood. I used blue gasket maker and resealed it. I let it set for 24 hours and filled with propane and it no longer leaks.

What can I do to strengthen the reservoir without getting one custom machined? Can reinforced ones be purchased?

Now when I load it ammo and fire it, if it fires at all, the BB is genitally pushed out of the barrel and falls about 2 meters from it, very low impact sound from the hammer and it's a light "huff" from the magazine. When I took it apart to fix the leak, could I have missed putting something back in the magazine or put something in wrong?

I'm not sure what exactly I'm looking for when the rifle is cocked... but when I do cock it and press the trigger, I don't see any sign of a hammer coming in contact with the striker part of the magazine. I take the magazine out and cock and fire it, I see no movement in the mag well where, IMO, the hammer should come out and strike the valve. The back of the magazine; where the hammer would strike the valve, has wear from previous contact with the hammer. Could this be worn out too much to properly fire the rifle? Is there a sear in the bolt that's suppose to push all this into the striker valve?

I have looked through youtube for videos about dis assembly and maintenance and all I can find are KJW M700; close to what I want to see but nothing that helps me see the hammer or the bolt or the bolt - one video about the magazine but nothing about how it works and nothing worth my time to properly diagnose what's exactly wrong.

If anyone here can help me out with with a tutorial or lead me to an exploded reference or even tell me what I need to fix this, please let me know.

I have a new magazine on order but it hasn't arrived yet. And if I require parts, let me know what and I'll get them ordered also.

Thanks for your time guys.

[voorhees -FWA-]

OK, so, it turned out that the firing pin in the bolt was loose... it fell out! :P I took it all apart and screwed it back together blue loctited the grub and now it shoots every time! But!

It was my understanding that this rifle, on propane, shoots 150+MPS (500FPS) but I'm only getting @ 111MPS (367FPS) with .20 gram Mabull BBs.

Is there anything else I'm missing that anyone can think of? My main concern is the mag and I'm still unable to locate an exploded view of the rifle and magazine.

I will continue my searches but any help would be appreciated, thank you!

*EDIT* Ok, I was worried about nothing, took the magazine apart again and examined how the mech in the mag worked. Pretty self explanitory. Everything is in there correct and good to go.

The only thing that's buggin me now is the 111MPS. Could it be that the impact plate is worn too much?

[ILLusion]

I got pointed to this thread. My comments:

Yes, Warhead purchased this gun brand new from me several months ago.

The magazine (as well as the rest of the gun), is NOT designed to take propane. It is strictly a duster gun, unless extremely heavy modifications are performed to allow it to handle the increased pressure load. Otherwise, excessive wear and damage to all components will be experienced. You are already seeing this with the loose knocker in the bolt, as well as the bulged magazine reservoir.

The magazine reservoir is made of a very thin cast metal, and not ideal to taking such internal pressure loads. Once bulged, it makes insertion and removal from the receiver of the gun quite difficult - almost impossible at times.

However, there may be a very small glimmer of hope to fix this. Many years ago, a Korean company called "Pax Armamentia" (http://www.caliber.co.kr/) manufactured and sold many aftermarket upgrade parts for the Tanaka M700 system, which included a CNC machined billet aircraft grade aluminum magazine insert that dramatically increased the strength of the magazine walls. In fact, it's strong enough to handle CO2. I'd ran a few group orders through them, but unfortunately, as you may have noticed from the website I linked, the company is now defunct, and as far as I know, has gone out of business. I haven't been able to reach them in years. The home page hasn't updated in at least 3 years - they could be just waiting for the hosting and domain to expire. It *may* be possible to find the inserts available somewhere internationally in a classifieds system. No retailer I knew of ever carried the Pax! parts regularly, and even I had them on limited supply. Beyond the ones I have installed in my own magazines, I don't have any left in stock, and the ones I own are not for sale, so don't ask. LOL.

These magazine inserts were not cheap, either. They cost almost $100 at the time... combined with the already expensive Tanaka M700 long mags and other valve and spring upgrades you'd add to the magazine, you would be carrying magazines worth over $200 EACH... all for the sake of proPAIN.

The glimmer of hope, is that the technology is still out there. They had a hop up conversion system, that allowed you to install Tokyo Marui VSR compatible inner barrels and hop up rubbers in to the Tanaka M700. This exact product was later sold to King Arms around the time that Pax went out of business. Later on, I noticed another company called Spartan Doctrine also selling the EXACT same product. Everything from the provided parts, the colour, and even the machining details and even the packaging were EXACTLY the same as the original Pax Armamentia product. From my understanding in conversations with Warhead, he had this hop up chamber inbound and may have already installed it for you. My hope, is that the rest of the product technology (or at least the CAD drawings and/or the CNC G-Code) were sold as well, with someone's intent to re-produce these at some point, as they were machined very well, and work perfectly.

At this point, my only major recommendation to you, is to STOP using propane, and to stick with duster. The reason, is because there are a few other parts in the gun that are susceptible to damage. Some are even impossible to replace, as there is no aftermarket option out there. One such example is the sear, which I tried for almost a year to find a direct replacement from Tanaka. After having no luck, I ordered a handful from KJW, as their M700 is apparently a clone of the Tanaka model. I haven't had a chance to try installing them yet, so I can not confirm fitment and functionality at this time. However, the sear WILL wear down with time. Installing an enhanced hammer spring to crack open magazine valves under propane pressure will increase the wear rate of this very rare part.

As for the firing pin - I've seen it come loose on more than a few occasions. Screwing it back together and Loctiting the grub is your best bet.

Your velocity does seem low, though. Out of the box, on duster, the gun should be capable of hitting 395fps, as this was the export model. It's possible that either the firing pin edge is worn, or the valve knocker is worn. Both are a possibility, as this gun has been used with propane, which puts a much larger load on these components than they were originally intended for.

I also found, that the original valve system in the magazine was not very good. The cantilevering system created a lot of wasted direct impact energy, as it converted it in to off-axis trajectories force direction. What I'm saying, is that the system was stupid. Upgrading it to a direct impact valve system drastically improves performance. I actually have a few of the Pax! Armamentia strike valves in stock, if you're interested in giving those a shot. They're a bit less than $30 a set. I think I have G&G versions as well in stock, which were the same price. No guarantees they will fix the problem. They're just an idea. As well, you can try taking out the sear and checking for wear (crushing at the firing pin impact point). You may also want to check the valve knocker as well to see if there's any wear to that component. G&G makes a steel reinforced upgrade, but I do not recommend using this part unless you also upgrade a few other components. When dealing with direct impact/wear components, you should always be matching materials.