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Weird Triggger response with lipo

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Old October 29th, 2009, 11:44   #1
Mindcrime13
 
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Weird Triggger response with lipo

today I received the lipo I order, it is a 11.1 15C 2000mah battery, and I tried it on my m4, when on semi it shoots full in like a milisecond I have the trigger pulled!

I mean the trigger response is awesome but it goes full, and the funny thing is that when I switch to the 7.4 lipo I was using it goes back to normal, in semi it shoots semi!

im a bit baffle by this, any help?
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Old October 29th, 2009, 12:06   #2
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15C might be too much for your gun. Your 7.4 might be only doing 10C or so.

What's your internal setup like?
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Old October 29th, 2009, 12:16   #3
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The battery is spinning the gears far to quickly, and / or the cut off lever is not engaging the sector gear. I had the same problem with 2-3 round burst when shooting lipo 11.1. Go to 7.4 it's more than enough power and you won't burn out your trigger contacts.
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Old October 29th, 2009, 12:20   #4
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cycle overlap
FYI a 7.4v 15c 1600mah lipo fires about as fast as a 9.6v NIMH. You didn't do any research before you bought your lipo did you?

Last edited by ThunderCactus; October 29th, 2009 at 12:23..
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Old October 29th, 2009, 12:20   #5
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7.4 20c is all I would recommend up to 450fps.

11.1 ANYTHING, is retarded rate of fire.
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Old October 29th, 2009, 12:31   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShelledPants View Post
7.4 20c is all I would recommend up to 450fps.

11.1 ANYTHING, is retarded rate of fire.
I agree anything above 7.4 20-25C is stupid ROF. I equate 11.1 to speedball.
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Last edited by Azathoth; October 29th, 2009 at 12:33..
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Old October 29th, 2009, 13:13   #7
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hm, the 7.4 is 25c 1800 mah , im gonna keep using that one then, i thought since the 11.1 was 15c it would be ok for the contact not to fry so fast
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Old October 29th, 2009, 13:16   #8
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Where did you guys learned that lower rating will prevent busting contacts?

It is voltage that makes them burn, not current.

Because you CANNOT control current.

Dang... I will have to update my FAQ and put that in BOLD RED.
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Old October 29th, 2009, 18:40   #9
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get a mosfet. solves your contact issues.

ive used 11.1 lipos for like forever with no issues.
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Old October 29th, 2009, 19:22   #10
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if the spring in your gun shoots under 350 fps then a 11.1 lipo will make it "auto,burst"... all my sub 350 guns are doing it...

11.1 are useful IMO for guys like me who shoots most of the time in semi. using a 11.1 gives me awesome trigger responce!
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Old October 30th, 2009, 03:07   #11
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anyway, a trigger master would fix that issue. I can do semi on an 11.1v lipo on my M4 no problem with active braking
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Old October 30th, 2009, 09:19   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThunderCactus View Post
anyway, a trigger master would fix that issue. I can do semi on an 11.1v lipo on my M4 no problem with active braking
Actually that is not true. I'm working with don and if your gearbox is not functioning properly to begin with the board will read your test shots as "normal"

That is if you gun shoots 2-3 round burst without a trigger master and a 11.1 lipo, when you install the unit and try train the board with the 5 semi shots after boot up it will train the board to the same error. I'm currently experiencing major problems with the board and my P90.
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Old October 30th, 2009, 14:14   #13
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Odd, mine never had that problem. It was my understanding that as soon as it got a low voltage spike from the cutoff lever it would engage the motor brake right away.
However I have seen the issue you describe in someone else's M4 rigged with a triggermaster. He had crushed the wiring and the trigger wires were arcing causing 3-5 round bursts in semi on startup
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Old October 30th, 2009, 14:22   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThunderCactus View Post
Odd, mine never had that problem. It was my understanding that as soon as it got a low voltage spike from the cutoff lever it would engage the motor brake right away.
However I have seen the issue you describe in someone else's M4 rigged with a triggermaster. He had crushed the wiring and the trigger wires were arcing causing 3-5 round bursts in semi on startup
The reason his rifle do 2-3 round burst is that the cut-off lever is hit too fast for a too short period of time to disengage the trigger, thus not giving a low-level signal to the unit.

Unless he finds a way to manually adjust the timer on the unit, it won't solve the issue by using a Trigger Master unit.

Modify M100-110 would solve the issue as it brings guns close to 350, depending on cylinder/barrel and seal.
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Old October 30th, 2009, 15:04   #15
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Depending on the exact nature of the problem a MOSFET switch with active braking could and might stop overtravel enough to do semi-auto fine with a mosfet unit. But likely only for borderline situations.

In other cases it's much more likely that RoF is just too high - the motor is simply cranking the gearbox too damned fast. The gearbox is driven electrically but operating properly depends on mechanical bits inside which don't engage as intended when run too fast. In extreme cases your piston might not even be completing a full release before the sector gear starts to engage it again, which is just asking for trouble. If you want to keep your fat battery you need to slow things down to make them work right.

If it's borderline then simply using a MOSFET with Active Braking might be all it needs. If it's not borderline then there's no way around it - you need to slow things down. One way to do that by slowing down the motor with a computerized MOSFET like the Trigger Master. A stronger spring slows things down too (but causes more stress on the parts.) You can also do a piston short-stroking modification which if done right will prevent the sector gear from re-engaging the piston too soon (at the cost of FPS) but won't necessarily do anything for problems with engaging the cutoff lever, etc.

In the end bigger battery = faster trigger response and RoF but the gearbox and its bits are a physical device with limits. There's a point where you just can't have it both ways.

Last edited by DonP; October 30th, 2009 at 15:06..
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