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RHOP patch extends range for gas pistol

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Old July 31st, 2016, 20:40   #1
Rossco66
 
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RHOP patch extends range for gas pistol

Long story short, I've never been overly impressed with the range of my KJW 1911 Les Baer. Using any BB above .28 would see an almost undetectable amount of hop regardless of how far I slid the adjustment.

Given I have been RHOPing AEG barrels for 2 seasons now, I decided to try to see if I could make it work with the pistol. Huge caveat, if you decide to use crazy glue to get the patch to stick, you will not have a high likelihood of success in the install. I have had significantly more success with my installs since moving to RTV for my adhesive and this is no exception.

Stock, the BB would travel about 80' before it would start to drop. Post patch install, I get approximately 180' with .32 BBs before the round starts to lose its flat trajectory. When I first installed the patch and reassembled the pistol, the .32s flew about 245' with a ski slope of overhop. Dremelling out a bit of the nub inside of the hop up rubber and flattening out the hop up arm a bit resolved the overhop issue and brought the range down to where it is now. No additional FPS but more than a double of the range.

I just thought I would put this out there in case anyone was frustrated like I was with crappy range from their pistol.

Cheers & happy modding.
Rossco
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Old July 31st, 2016, 21:41   #2
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Guessing I will be giving you my pistol barrel to RHOP for shits and giggles and long range kills
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Old July 31st, 2016, 21:52   #3
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Guessing I will be giving you my pistol barrel to RHOP for shits and giggles and long range kills
You always have the open invitation Mikey boy!
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Old July 31st, 2016, 22:16   #4
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I've already done this before. Offers no range increase over a good upgraded rubber but takes way more time and effort to install.
My stock marui M&P does 200ft stock with .25s with great accuracy
Rhopped USP compact does about 160 (same as it's old rubber before it wore out)
Buddy's upgraded hicapa does ~230ft with .25s with upgraded rubber
All our Rhopped aegs are in the 260-300ft range, but at .4-.6j higher than the pistols and using .30s

But Rhopping a pistol is entirely dependent on what HOP ARM it uses as many GBB hop arms aren't meant for flat hop.

All in all, it's better to just get a better hop rubber. Rhop if you HAVE to, but otherwise its just not worth it.

Last edited by ThunderCactus; August 1st, 2016 at 23:59..
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Old August 1st, 2016, 11:37   #5
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Originally Posted by ThunderCactus View Post
I've already done this before. Offers no range increase over a good upgraded rubber but takes way more time and effort to install.
My stock marui M&P does 200ft stock with .25s with great accuracy
Rhopped USP compact does about 160 (same as it's old rubber before it wore out)
Buddy's upgraded hicapa does ~230ft with .25s with upgraded rubber
All our Rhopped aegs are in the 260-300ft range, but at .4-.6j higher than the pistols and using .30s

But Rhopping a pistol is entirely dependent on what HOP ARM it uses as many GBB hop arms aren't meant for flat hop.

All in all, it's better to just get a better hop rubber. Rhop is you HAVE to, but otherwise its just not worth it.
I never saw the results from the Rubbers I've purchased and would have far preferred a simpler approach. Perhaps you can share some thoughts regarding upgrade rubbers.

KWA M9 PTP
KJW 1911 Les Baer

Are the two pistols in question. I have two 1911's and have now RHOPed one but I would be thrilled if I don't have to do the other to get some reasonable performance out of it. I've tried A+ on the KWA M9 as well as a KWA MP7 but was underwhelmed with the performance. In fact I don't really believe there was a noticeable augmentation at all over the stock components.

I'm all ears to learn from your experience


As an aside I can definitely get 260 out of my RHOPed AEG setups (VFC M4 and G&G M14 EBR) with a 6.03 prommy but 300' is not something I've ever been able to approach.
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Old August 1st, 2016, 11:43   #6
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I see no real benefit in R Hopping GBB cut barrels due to the open face of the barrel window. Yes it will increase the ability to lift, but no I do not see it improving consistency over a standard rubber. I used to run .32g in my TM pistols without issue, and that was with the stock rubber and no arm modifications.
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Old August 1st, 2016, 14:29   #7
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Originally Posted by pestobanana View Post
I see no real benefit in R Hopping GBB cut barrels due to the open face of the barrel window. Yes it will increase the ability to lift, but no I do not see it improving consistency over a standard rubber. I used to run .32g in my TM pistols without issue, and that was with the stock rubber and no arm modifications.
The improved lift was the key to my issue. Crappy range regardless of how much Hop was applied and it didn't seem to matter if I went down to a .28 or not. I run .32 in my AEG's and wanted to run the same ammo in the pistols for the same reasons I run them in the rifles. 80' of range is fine in CQB but I play exclusively outdoors so 80' is not particularly helpful.

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Old August 1st, 2016, 15:30   #8
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Some of my TM pistols were crack out of the box and others were a little more wild. I recently switched out my stock rubber for a VSR (harder) rubber and placed a piece of condensed foam, careful cut, under the arm to deliver more even pressure on the bucking. It definitely helped a little for range and consistency. A high quality barrel, making sure your barrel assembly is put together properly and making sure it has no wobble, etc, can all be contributing factors. I don't see r-hopping as being a necessity.
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Old August 1st, 2016, 23:58   #9
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Not all GBB hop rubbers are created equal, maple leafs might be good as an upgrade, but I've stuck with the stock TM rubbers in my TM pistols just because there's really no need to upgrade them.

I'm not saying it's a bad idea, it's just not worth the time IF there's a good upgrade rubber available.

Generally, the harder the rubber, the less friction it has, the less hop it can put on the BB.
So to get the same backspin on a .32 on a 50 versus 70 degree rubber, the 70 degree is going to drop your muzzle energy more and reduce your range.
Super soft is best for pistols. It also prevents the rubber from hardening due to cooldown.
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Old August 2nd, 2016, 02:31   #10
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Maple Leaf makes such amazing Hop Up Rubbers for pistols its really hard to think there could be a better performing alternative.

My pistols shoot straight and far with consistency.

The only difference between my RHOPed AEGs and my Upgraded Maple Leaf Pistols [KWA USP and WE Glocks] is my AEGs shoot much farther.

To ask that a Pistol can perform and shoot as well as an upgraded AEG in my opinion is is probably a bit out of reach.
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Old August 2nd, 2016, 11:39   #11
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In the end it's a problem of muzzle energy. Doesn't matter what BB you're using, at some point they all run out of forward momentum.
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Old August 2nd, 2016, 13:05   #12
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Originally Posted by shelcoof View Post
Maple Leaf makes such amazing Hop Up Rubbers for pistols its really hard to think there could be a better performing alternative.

My pistols shoot straight and far with consistency.

The only difference between my RHOPed AEGs and my Upgraded Maple Leaf Pistols [KWA USP and WE Glocks] is my AEGs shoot much farther.

To ask that a Pistol can perform and shoot as well as an upgraded AEG in my opinion is is probably a bit out of reach.
Well technically speaking, once your hop-up is crack and your BBs fly with good consistency and stability (assuming there are no issues within the gun), you could increase distance with an FPS boost in a bid to run heavier ammo. You may need to increase the hardness of the bucking or the barrel length a little, but it could be done. All the same physics apply, even to pistols. That being said, if your pistol is crack one-hundred feet or more, then why continue pushing it? I assume your pistol is your secondary? So if it's quick acquisition or tighter quarters/closer range, then one-hundred plus feet it great for a sidearm. All that being said, if you know what you're doing and you have all the time and money, then "hell yeah", try and push that sucker to its limits. Some claim to have pistols ranging past two-hundred feet accurately. Personally I like having lower powered sidearms (under 350), so they can be used sportsmanly/safely anywhere, anytime and at any range, but I suppose it depends on the local field/game rules.
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Old August 6th, 2016, 20:46   #13
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Very interested in this, Thanks for adding Rossco66.
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Old August 7th, 2016, 00:17   #14
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I don't understand why people run such anything heavier that .28s on pistols. Sure, flight paths might be more stable, but the fps is so low that it frustrates the crap out me seeing how long it takes bbs to reach its target. 0.25g seem the sweets spot for me with pistols, I would even use 0.2s indoors.
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Old August 7th, 2016, 05:56   #15
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I don't understand why people run such anything heavier that .28s on pistols. Sure, flight paths might be more stable, but the fps is so low that it frustrates the crap out me seeing how long it takes bbs to reach its target. 0.25g seem the sweets spot for me with pistols, I would even use 0.2s indoors.
I use 0.30g in my pistols because it takes me less BBs to hit my target than lets say 0.20g because its more stable.

With the limited 25 BBs per magazine you bet I'm going to want to minimize the amount of BBs to take out a target.
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