|July 8th, 2009, 18:42||#1|
Join Date: Dec 2005
New 007 Magnum and Turbo motor reviews
New 007 AEG motors versus SystemA AEG motors
This review is based on long type motors, I have not tested the short type but they are the same motor internals with different shaft lengths.
A little about myself:
I have been playing airsoft in Ottawa for 5 years as of the writing this and I have been working on guns for about 3 of those years. I have experience with the brands; TM, G&G, G&P, CYMA, DBoys, Echo1, KART, CA, VFC, TOP, STAR, ICS, King Arms, JG, and SystemA PTW’s. AEG models I have experience with are; armalites (including SR-25’s), MP5’s, AK’s, G36’s, M14’s, Sig’s, STAR/CA/TOP M249’s and M60’s, MP7’s, P90’s, Thompsons, AUG’s, spring bolt action sniper rifles, and various GBB’s. I don’t have the experience level of some top gun docs on ASC such as Illusion among others, but I have been around. As for motors since that is what this review is about I have used in my own personal guns or worked on in team mates guns; TM EG560, 700, and 1000’s, G&P M120 high speed, M140 torque type, and M160 ultra type, SystemA turbo and magnums, Guarder infinity, CA standard, torque, and speed type, old school SystemA normal motors, G&G, and various cheap Chinese motors (CYMA, Action, Echo1, JG, etc.)
Upon opening the package I was greeted with fairly plain looking motors. Nothing like the fancy SystemA motors with anodized aluminum components and large silver braided leads from the brushes to the commutator contacts. The motors are black bodied with black plastic ends, the magnum has a silver bushing on the top with a silver spring (this was a prototype, the production magnum motors have red anodized bushings) and the turbo has a blue anodized bushing with silver spring. The pinion gears are quite a different colour between the two brands with the SystemA having their flat black chromoly pinion gears that though its supposed to be an incredibly strong metal are known to have the teeth snap off or the entire pinion gear break in half and fall off the shaft. The 007 motors have a lighter coloured pinion gear, much more like a TM or G&P motor, and instead of having a 1.27mm hard to find allen screw holding it on, it’s a micro flat head that can be removed with a set of precision tools available at any hardware store. Also instead of being on a round shaft where if the screw comes loose, it spins free, the 007 motors have the “D” shaped shaft found on CA motors so even if the screw comes off totally the pinion gear will still drive the mechbox. The bolt holding the pinion gear on the 007 motors is incredibly difficult to remove out of the box, whereas the SystemA pinion gear screw unwinds itself and the motor free spins after 500-2000rnds in my experience (roughly 5-7 SystemA motors.) Some loctite fixes this problem with the SystemA’s but it’s a precautionary measure not needed on the 007 motors.
One big difference is that the end of the 007 motors are plastic, same as TM, G&P, Guarder, ICS, and every other brand I have experience with. SystemA motors have a nice looking anodized aluminum end between the contacts; aluminum conducts electricity, plastic does not, so if a wire slips, connector twists, or somehow some metal shavings or a loose shim get near the end of the SystemA motors they can short out and pulling the trigger will only heat up your wires. Personally I have no idea why SystemA made this choice as it serves only an aesthetic purpose for a component that is inside the gun and not visible.
Of magnets and amperage:
The strength of the magnets in the motors is another huge difference, at least for the turbo’s. The SystemA magnum has neodymium magnets which are incredibly strong and known to hold screws and small allen keys against the handle when the motor is installed. SystemA turbo’s may have the same type of magnets (according to SystemA) but they are no where near as strong; only slightly stronger than a TM motor. The 007 motors have the same strength magnets in both motors which is slightly stronger than a SystemA magnum; handy when swapping things as I can just snap them to my steel desk lamp when not in use so they don’t attract all kinds of metal parts on my desk top. The SystemA motors have silver (or silver coated, not 100% sure) braided wire on the brushes where the 007 motors have the standard copper braided wire. As far as I can tell this makes no difference as the amperage draw was the same for both; both motors had an initial spike of 25A and a continuous running amperage on full auto of 14-18A. 25A is the maximum amperage the battery I tested with can provide and the maximum the wire can carry is around 32A since I rewired the gun with 14awg wire (stock guns usually have 18awg, “upgraded” guns most often have 16awg.) The brushes themselves are both fairly standard in appearance, nothing special on either side. SystemA marks the positive side of the motor by painting the spring shaft for the brush red, this has worn off of my SystemA turbo and I had to scratch the anodized coating with a “+” to mark it, 007 motors use the standard little “+” mark molded into the plastic end, so no worries about missing it.
Trigger Response and ROF:
I tested the motors in an ICS CQBR with stock gears, King Arms steel dual oil channel bushings, systemA shims, new type ICS anti-reversal, TM nylon piston body, unknown brand black ventilated piston head, Modify Ms110 spring (chronies 395fps with the guarder enhanced hopup rubber and Prometheus 6.03mm CQBR length barrel), metal bearing spring guide, stock ICS tappet plate, Modify stainless ported cylinder, dual o-ring cylinder head, and airseal nozzle. The trigger response was not noticeably different for any of the 4 motors tested, only one that was worse was the TM EG1000 I tested. The trigger response on the 9.6V 2000mAh PEQ battery I tested with was so good the only way to get it to part cycle on semi was to flick it with my finger, any normal trigger pull will always cycle entirely.
The rate of fire measured in rounds per second are as follows. Chrony used was a gen 1 (blue) Madbull chrony:
SystemA Magnum: 21
SystemA Turbo : 23
007 Magnum: 18
007 Turbo: 21
TM EG1000: 16
I currently have no way of measuring torque but all the motors listed except the TM have better torque than any motor I have ever tested other than a G&P M160 ultra type which is essentially a magnum type also with neodymium magnets. The ROF on the SystemA’s is obviously better as shown in the numbers and you can tell when listening to it, but as I state below the price far outweighs this fact. The ROF of the TM EG1000 is only slightly lower than the 007 magnum but its also lower torque so slower to start up, the first shot is lagged compared to the 007 or SystemA motors.
As of the writing of this article, the 007 motors are listed at CAD$65 each at www.007airsoft.com and the SystemA motors are listed at almost twice the price at CAD$115 at www.airsoftparts.ca. Also at www.airsoftparts.ca are the Guarder motors at CAD$75 and G&P regular motors (not the M160 ultra type) at CAD$40. I have experience with all the motor types I just listed and I used to recommend the G&P motors for best-bang-for-your-buck, having performance not as good as SystemA’s obviously but significantly better than a TM or other stock motor for a bargain price. The Guarder are really nice, also with neodymium magnets, but at CAD$75 I marked them off as not as good a deal as the G&P motors. Coming in at CAD$65 and better than the Guarder motors in magnet strength (a huge part of torque) and a slightly better ROF I would definitely make these my new recommended motors for cost vs. performance. The law of diminishing returns comes into play here the same as it does when comparing say a Prometheus 6.03mm tightbore to a PDI 6.01mm tightbore, in the case of the tightbores the cost is as much as three times higher for marginally better performance. The motors don’t have as large a difference but the SystemA still comes in at twice the price for, again, marginally better performance.
The long term reliability of these motors is not known at this time as I can’t exactly test a motor for say a half million shots or anything like that. Ironically the only motors I have had fail other than really cheap Chinese ones are TM motors, though that’s because they where used for so long. SystemA motors tend to have a low rating in my book for reliability because of the pinion gears coming loose, cracking, or stripping. G&P and TM motors I have used by far the most with well into the hundreds of thousands of rounds on individual motors with no failures. Since 007 motors don’t seem to have the same pinion gear problem as the SystemA motors and they are of a top quality build, my guess would be they are a motor to rely on.
Motor Best at What:
ROF: SystemA Turbo (runner up tie SystemA Magnum/007 Turbo, last place TM)
Best Trigger Response: tie SystemA/007 Magnum (last place goes to TM)
Pinion Gear Durability: TM EG1000 (last place goes to SystemA)
Pinion Gear Ease of Replacability: 007 either type (last place goes to TM)
Price: TM EG1000 (SystemA most expensive by far)
Price vs. Performance (overall best): 007 Magnum
|July 8th, 2009, 18:48||#2|
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Burlington, ON
Wow, thank you so much. I have been meaning to buy a new motor lately, and now I think I know which one I am going to get! Very informative and very well written.
I love freedom and consequently America
|July 9th, 2009, 01:22||#3|
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Edmonton, AB
Well, yes and no. (EDIT: This was in reply to a "anodizing is an insulator so there are no worries about shorting on a Systema Magnum" post which seems to have disappeared.)
With the Systema Magnums (at least one run of them anyway) the end terminal plates can short through to the aluminum bell housing because the ONLY insulation is the anodizing.
On airsoft-mechanics.com testing showed that it can short through the anodizing (i.e. "jump it", like a spark from your finger to the doorknob) at only 24 volts, which is well within the voltage spike range of such a motor. Spikes are a normal and expected by-product of an electrical system like an Airsoft gun. (You do not need to be using a 24V battery to get a 24V spike.)
Anyway, by adding fiber washers as insulation between the terminal plates and the bell housing (instead of just using the anodizing as the only insulation) the insulation voltage was raised to 750 volts (from a mere 24).
Some background: http://forums.airsoftmechanics.com/i...p?topic=1486.0
There are some videos in there too showing testing, and the motor shorting at only 24V.
P.S. But of course this isn't the first horrible design flaw found in a Systema Magnum. They might be powerful but they sure aren't worth the potential troubles and wear in my opinion (but then again, I don't upgrade my guns so I'm hardly one to talk...) Anyway, I should stop here because I can't stand the damned things.
Last edited by DonP; July 9th, 2009 at 10:31..