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Anyone Good with Classics/DG/Escorts? Shoei MP44 Problems

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Old May 26th, 2015, 19:28   #1
Skeletor
 
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Anyone Good with Classics/DG/Escorts? Shoei MP44 Problems

So I’m looking for a gun doc who has knowledge and experience fixing Escort-based guns. Are you that gun doc, or know that gun doc? Please let me know so that I can get in touch!

The gun in question is a Shoei MP44. It has a problem where the bolt pauses for a moment before returning to battery. Sometimes it also pauses much farther back, jamming so that I actually have to rack it to get it shooting again.

Here are two brief videos that show the problem. They’re older videos, but the problem is still the same.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjzvrqWbVxo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dlQ6fbKybY

Keith (GBBR) took a look at this for me and couldn’t get it fixed. I also spoke with Tomio Matsumoto, an employee of Shoei, regarding the problem.

Here’s what I’ve done so far to try and fix it:

-Bought a ton of new (and expensive) parts direct from Shoei. Air switch, air shaft, trigger, bb chamber, hop bucking, etc. Most of the components are new.
-I even swapped around between old/new components and the problem persisted

-I even sent pretty much all the internals to Shoei to see if they could fix it. They seemed to get it working, showed me a video and everything, but when the parts came back and I reinstalled them it had the same problem. They charged me a ludicrous amount for this service, so I’d rather not send anything back to them (the shipping to Japan is also ridiculous)

-Tried various strength recoil springs, including a cut down M4 spring and a new from Shoei MP44 recoil spring.

-Lube. I’ve lubed the crap out of this gun. I’ve tried both silicone oil and that DuPont spray that Tony Rizzo of TNK guns recommends for Daytona guns, which also run on the Escort system

-Sent the gun to Keith (GBBR). Keith couldn’t get it working, and theorized that maybe something is off with the body of the gun itself rather than the internals

-Tried different air pressures from 80 psi to 135 psi. For reference, Shoei recommends to run the gun at about 80 psi. I use a Redline Firebase air rig with a single QD and a Guardian 68/4500 HPA tank.

-I have also tried tapping into the classic airsoft forum community, but they couldn't offer me any useful advice on it

If anyone else has any ideas, I’m up to trying them. Or, as I said earlier, if you are a gun doc good with classics or know one who is then please let me know. It’s an awesome gun, and I’d love to get it working correctly.

Last edited by Skeletor; May 26th, 2015 at 19:31..
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Old May 26th, 2015, 21:25   #2
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Did you try other regulators? Palmers? LPR? Maybe connect it to a compressor to test it?

(Assuming you have tried it)
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Old May 26th, 2015, 22:22   #3
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I know this is the obvious question but have you inspected for odd wear or edges withi the body of the gun that may cause the jam? It could be more of a dent/divit created in the area the bolt travels?
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Old May 26th, 2015, 22:45   #4
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I only have the one regulator to check it, but the components were tested with other regulators by Shoei and GBBR. Shoei seemed to have the internals working in their shop gun (although even in their video after "fixing" it I still noticed a very slight version of the problem). So that leads me to think that maybe there is something with the body.

When cycling the bolt manually there is no hiccup or pause in the gun at any point. Even if I pull it back only slightly it springs back into battery with no problems. I suppose cocking the gun like that does shift everything inside ever so slightly towards the left side. Maybe there's something on the right side? I'll check the body again tomorrow.
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Old May 27th, 2015, 04:49   #5
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Are you ever at TTAC? It's a long way to go for an evening of gaming. Occasionally I show up late to smoke cigars and shoot the shit. I have a habit of being entertained by looking at misbehaving guns and figuring out what is wrong with them.

Make an arrangement with someone who'll be there and I'll even bring some tools. No promises, I'll do my best not to do anything irreversible unless it goes towards making things better.

No charge, I'm out of the gun doc biz, but I can be entertained by an interesting case. I can't take on formal jobs because I work on grenade crap all day.
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Old May 27th, 2015, 09:15   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skeletor View Post
I only have the one regulator to check it, but the components were tested with other regulators by Shoei and GBBR. Shoei seemed to have the internals working in their shop gun (although even in their video after "fixing" it I still noticed a very slight version of the problem). So that leads me to think that maybe there is something with the body.

When cycling the bolt manually there is no hiccup or pause in the gun at any point. Even if I pull it back only slightly it springs back into battery with no problems. I suppose cocking the gun like that does shift everything inside ever so slightly towards the left side. Maybe there's something on the right side? I'll check the body again tomorrow.
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Are you ever at TTAC? It's a long way to go for an evening of gaming. Occasionally I show up late to smoke cigars and shoot the shit. I have a habit of being entertained by looking at misbehaving guns and figuring out what is wrong with them.

Make an arrangement with someone who'll be there and I'll even bring some tools. No promises, I'll do my best not to do anything irreversible unless it goes towards making things better.

No charge, I'm out of the gun doc biz, but I can be entertained by an interesting case. I can't take on formal jobs because I work on grenade crap all day.
Go to Max,

I have a hunch it may be your regulator and tank. Also Gurdian tanks have a bad reputation since it's badlands/kill house crap re-brand :P

I would try to find someone that can let you try out their regulator / HPA tank/compressor and see if that solves the issue (Simplest issue imo to see if it'll fix it). IF that doesn't fix it, then you got a bigger problem on your hand.. if it does fix it, well then
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Old May 27th, 2015, 10:11   #7
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It would be nice if it was my regulator or tank, and I'll see about checking it on another. However, I feel like it probably isn't. I doubt GBBR used the exact same setup I have, and he encountered the same problem. Going back and reviewing the function videos of the person I bought it from a few years ago I notice the same problem, and I know he was using a Palmer's Pursuit regulator.

I'm tempted by your offer, MadMax, but for one I can't seem to find when any games happen at TTAC. The opscore website seems to be down, and the last game event on the Facebook page seems to have been April 6th? Do they do games every Friday night?

For two, and I know I'll probably get laughed at for this, I really can't stand driving in or around Toronto and I usually do my best to avoid it at all costs. It just sets me off. I suppose I'll have to weigh that against my desire to get this gun fixed.
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Old May 27th, 2015, 10:15   #8
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Old May 27th, 2015, 11:22   #9
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Events for TTAC3 are usually only posted on ASC. I'll mention to Talon that someone checked FB, so he can (probably) start posting up there.

There's not an event EVERY Friday night, but they try to do it as often as possible. There's one this week: http://www.airsoftcanada.com/showthread.php?t=172269
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Old May 27th, 2015, 18:01   #10
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Okay, so I went and looked at the gun again today with a flashlight. I found a small protrusion on the left side of the upper receiver that doesn't seem like it should be there. I'll try and find the sanding attachment for my dremel so that I can remove it and see if it makes a difference.

Could that be the cause of the problems?

I've also taken a couple pictures of the approximate spot where the whole system pauses for a moment.







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Old May 27th, 2015, 19:19   #11
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Okay, so I went and looked at the gun again today with a flashlight. I found a small protrusion on the left side of the upper receiver that doesn't seem like it should be there. I'll try and find the sanding attachment for my dremel so that I can remove it and see if it makes a difference.

Could that be the cause of the problems?

I've also taken a couple pictures of the approximate spot where the whole system pauses for a moment.







Why would there be a protrusion there in the first place? Is it part of the design or did the body of the gun get damaged?
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Old May 27th, 2015, 19:29   #12
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It's an old gun. As far as I know that probably shouldn't be there. There is nothing on the outside spot that corresponds to that inner mark (no dimple, no depression, etc). Perhaps it was a manufacturing problem? I don't know if Shoei stamps or mills these receivers, but maybe whatever process they used left this accidental bump in there?
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Old May 29th, 2015, 14:49   #13
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I ground down that one little bump. No change.

Anyone have any other suggestions? I should I just try and get to TTAC sometime with it?
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Old May 29th, 2015, 19:29   #14
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I ground down that one little bump. No change.

Anyone have any other suggestions? I should I just try and get to TTAC sometime with it?
Turn on the TV, and rack the bolt back and forth for an hour?
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