|June 1st, 2012, 14:39||#46|
Join Date: Dec 2001
So which one is closest to true 1x at the bottom end amongst the cheaper alternatives (Millet, Vector, Vision King)?
I'm mostly looking for a both-eyes-open solution since I'll be using it at 1x 90% of the time with the OPTION of going to + x only when absolutely needed.
|June 2nd, 2012, 06:59||#48|
I did a review of the VisionKing 1.25-5x optic as well as the Building Fire LaRue SPR-S mount on ArniesAirsoft yesterday. Those with an Arnies account might have seen it already.
I'd like to link the reviews here if you guys want a quick reference but problem is I'm not too sure if linking to another airsoft forum here is allowed. I quickly browsed through the FAQ and it doesn't seem to say anything about that. Regardless, I don't want to breach any rules here and I'm not a frequent lurker of ASC hence I'm unsure of the rules
If someone can clear up the above I'll link my reviews over to this thread (or even copy + paste everything as Arnies requires an account to view the reviews) if you'd like.
|June 2nd, 2012, 09:05||#49|
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Portland, Oregon, USA
The only linking policies I know of on ASC are regarding not linking to places where airsoft guns are sold except in the AV areas. It's also doubtful that Arnie's is competing for ad dollars with ASC as it is in the UK..
Now you know
|June 2nd, 2012, 10:48||#50|
Join Date: Oct 2007
|June 2nd, 2012, 11:47||#51|
VISIONKING 1.25-5x26 SCOPE REVIEW
Hey all, here's my review of the VisionKing scope!
I went to RSOV before to take a look (the sales guy named Light was very nice and allowed me to take a look and try out the magnification and illumination on both a Leupold scope copy and the VisionKing) and didn't buy the optic then because I knew getting it at Airsoft Global is much cheaper :X Sorry, RSOV.
Anyway, my friend Jason from CQBStudio (a CQB Wargame site in Hong Kong) helped me out with the purchase (as CQBStudio is in Tsuen Wan, same place as AG). Thanks Jason for helping me out, if you're reading this!
So, back to the review. I wanted to get the VisionKing scope after reading the initial review here and wanting something like a short dot myself. Alas, none of the airsoft replica truly mimics a S&B Short Dot (which is stupid..make a clone already ACM companies...) and the VisionKing actually resembles a Leupold MR/T in my opinion. I've spent quite a while reading about both the S&B Short Dot and the Leupold MR/T (honestly just trying to make myself feel happy about the functionality of these scopes...albeit I'm getting a clone and that might be a completely different story!) and this is what sold the Leupold MR/T 'design' for me:
Leupold MR/T 1.5-5x M2 - M4Carbine.net Forums
1) To me, the Short Dot is a CQB scope that is useable with some amount of precision at distance. The Meopta K-Dot would fall into that category as well, with the NF 1-4 sort of trying to, but not exactly succeeding because of the lack of daytime illum.
2) This 1.5-5 MR/T on the other hand seems to me to be a precision mid-range scope that can be used for CQB. Sort of the inverse of priorities from the Short Dot... which suits me better since I have an Aimpoint on my SBR for purely short-range shooting.
3) As an alternative to an ACOG, I think this thing wins hands-down. Approaching the problem from the other direction: As an alternative to an Aimpoint, the Short Dot is a better plan and this scope really can't compete with it as a CQB optic.... but it works a lot better as a CQB optic than an ACOG."
I'm shoving the VisionKing scope on a LaRue SPR Mount copy and then shoving that on a M16A3 I'm building to hit out to 80m-100m accurately, and taking into consideration of the fields in Hong Kong the Leupold MR/T seems to be exactly what I wanted. Oh and here's my reasoning as to why I prefer using adjustable magnified optics for airsoft compared to say a red dot and an ACOG, I posted this to a friend before privately so I might as well post it here:
Considering that we won't run real steel optics any time soon the current line of Red Dots within airsoft budget are unreliable given that the way the adjustment knobs adjust the laser for the dot is not durable at all. I've broken 2 aimpoints already (a G&P CompM2 and a DYTAC T-1 Micro) and at a retail price of ~400-500 (HKD) it's not cheap to replace the damn thing every time it breaks. My friend also broke a few of his Red Dots already, and I don't think that keep buying Red Dots to replace the ones we break is financially sound.
As such, if we were to consider the situation in an outdoor game (indoor games will use Red Dots or iron sights...really there's nothing else we can replace there) then the Red Dots are outclassed by magnified optics such as the ACOGs (top picture) and the Elcan SpecterDR (middle picture).
However, the limits to the current ACOG design is that they are a fixed optic (at 4x in general) and in close ranges the ACOG is not very good for target acquisition given the large magnification. Doctor Sight Red Dots can be mounted to the top of the ACOG but this means the height to bore ratio would be enormous; and is self-defeating given that you would want a lower height to bore ratio for CQB optics rather than a high one since it might be impossible to adjust the high CQB dot to a point of aim, point of impact solution.
Another drawback is the eye relief; being finite compared with a Red Dot or any other unmagnified optic. This is particularly a concern because it limits where you can place the ACOG with the optimal eye relief and since the replicas are not made to extremely high qualities the ACOGs in general will need to be mounted very far back, in some cases where it would not be feasible to use a BUIS either. This is a particularly valid concern for people like me running a fixed stock; though people running adjustable stocks (particularly the AR15 platform) this could be eliminated by not extending the stock out so much; but then again the limit would be placed on the amount of stock you can adjust before the optic becomes unusable with the poor eye relief.
Cost for the ACOG is not really an issue given that a standard ACOG without the Doctor Sight is somewhere near the 600 bucks range (if I remember correctly). As long as the ACOG can last more than twice the lifespan of the Red Dots we use (and I'm sure that's very possible) the ACOG is in fact a better option in terms of finance. However; once you get to the ones with the Doctor Sight piggybacked onto the ACOG the prices rise up to ~1000 bucks, which means the ACOG will need to outlast some three times the lifespan of our current Red Dots; again I believe that is easy achievable but not everyone wants to spend 1000 bucks in one go just for an optic.
Onto the Elcan SpecterDRs; the eye relief is much better than the ACOG (1.5x more eye relief by my guess; I've looked through both optics first hand) and it can also mount a Doctor Sight on the top of the optic; but the Elcan is bulky and more expensive than the ACOG. Weight and cost plays a huge factor here, not to mention the inability to mount a killflash on the clones right now as there are no replica killflashes compared to the ACOG.
So what does this leave us? Red Dots will break and aren't durable; so the option should be the ACOG given the weight is not as heavy as the Elcan, the cost is cheaper than the Elcan, and there is the ability to protect the optic with a killflash unlike the Elcan. However, the sacrifice compared with the Elcan is the eye relief; which for magnified optics it's a deal-breaking issue (though I have the best ACOG replica right now and it's very good for the price, eye relief only an issue when I use my M16 with the fixed stock and wearing SAPI plates). But the main problem with the ACOG is the fact that the Doctor Sight is mounted too high up, leading to the inability to shoot point of aim, point of impact in very close quarters.
Taking some hints from real steel development, I've been looking a the S&B Short Dot, which the real deal costs USD 3500 (bottom picture). The Short Dot's concept is simple; a single optic that has variable magnification from 1.1x-4x which basically encompasses the ACOG + Doctor Sight into a single tube. The minimum magnification cannot be 1x given that there are issues in doing so on the real steel scope (ghosting, etc.) but in general a small 0.1x extra magnification doesn't affect the user much for CQB shooting. Given that the height over bore is the same for the magnification ranges between 1.1x-4x this means that for CQB there will be no problem on height over bore issues. Another thing is the Short Dot is also a Red Dot in itself; as it has an illuminating reticule so at the lowest settings it will mimic a Red Dot sight.
Of course, none of the more famous airsoft brands have any scope that even resembles the Short Dot and given that I am anal about having peripherals that are true to the real steel stuff I took upon myself to try and see if there are any scope that resembles the Short Dot. There were some that were made in Japan ages ago and are discontinued in WGC. But I came across this China brand called VisionKing and they hava a 90% similar copy here:
Seeing that it was a China product, I was worried about it's quality. After all, besides the looks I needed something that is functional. so I scoured the internet for a review, which lead me to one on ArniesAirsoft:
From the reviewer's pictures (and they were very nice pics) the clarity of the glass is very good and the reviewer asserts that it was one of the best eye relief optics he's had (he had a ACOG and Red Dot replica before). So there we have it; what I believe is the gold mine of airsoft optics for outdoor games. The optic's magnification is 1.25x-5x; and other than the 5x max magnification (that there's nothing really to talk about other than the magnification being 1x more than an ACOG, so for long range shots the target clarity is better) the 1.25x from the reviewer's picture doesn't seem too bad and I'm sure for within 5 meters of engagement the 1.25x is not an issue at all. The optic also allows red or blue illumination and although the reticule is not the same as a real steel one the availability of the illuminating dot (which is also etched onto the glass in case you don't want the light) and the magnification is good enough for our airsofting needs from shooting at a distance of 3m-100m. Lastly; given the adjustment will adjust the glass piece in the scope rather than the LED inside the scope the durability of this scope would be the same as an ACOG, so basically better than the current Red Dots we use (there would be an LED in the S&B replica but since the glass needs to move too I think it is safe to assume that the LED would be more secure than the Red Dot ones). Only real problem I have right now is the lack of a glass protection for the Short Dot though given the size of the glass (~30mm) I think getting some covers custom made for the scope would be relatively easy.
The cost is not prohibitive either (slightly more than an ACOG without the Doctor Sight if we also get a good mount) so I will be getting one of these in the future to do some testing on. Hopefully it lives up to my expectations and if so I will retire the ACOG on my M16 and replace it with the S&B Short Dot instead (with the ACOG moved to my SCAR). Something for you guys to think about if you are planning to get an optic for outdoor games.
Course, I made assumptions above based on my experience only, and I don't have any experience with regards to real steel stuff, like firearms or real firearm optics, so I might be wrong in some places.
So, back to the VisionKing scope, they are actually made in Shengzhen and the funny thing is not a lot of Hong Kong retailers stock them. Actually AirsoftGlobal seems to be the one that stocks almost all the scopes (def. have the most VisionKing product I've seen from retailers) so if you guys want to get one get it at AG. The box haven't changed from the one the initial reviewer got, so it's pretty lame with the whole "IT IS NOT SCOPE, IT IS VISIONKING" marketing crap on it...kinda reminds me of HBO...Oh yeah, all pics taken with a Galaxy SII, didn't have a 'real camera' when I took my photos!
So, opening up the packaging (forgot to take a picture!) the scope's nicely wrapped with that thin foamy plastic thing you generally see on electronic stuff and a plastic bag, with the scope covers on it. The scope covers have a rubbery feel to it where it wraps around the scope (and that means it doesn't grip the scope well as it's quiet loose) and the cover itself is hard plastic. The covers stay closed pretty damn tight, so much that if I tried to open the covers from the 'Mickey Mouse' ears the scope cover will get ripped off the scope...Guess I gotta get myself some new covers then!
It also comes with an instruction manual, though I haven't read it yet; along with a lens wiping cloth.
The scope diameter is 30mm, so it fits my LaRue SPR Copy fine. The surface is anodized and the eye relief is 12cm-16cm depending on the magnification you're using. Turrets are very hard to turn (the illumination and magnification ones) and the parallax adjustment ring is not too loose, not too tight.
The reticule adjustments haven't been fiddled with yet but here are some pics of the adjustment parts:
Turret Covers (bottom part)
Here are the pics of the trademarks:
Trades on top of scope, behind illumination turret
Trades on side of scope, note that it's mounted on my SCAR and the muzzle's pointing downwards
So, I guess that covers all the external bits, now onto the glass itself! Here are some pics of the Illumination of the reticule. My phone cam sucks, but the dot in the center is VERY VERY CRISP (along with the doughnut around it) and even at the brightest setting there's no bleeding of light from the reticule. I don't have experience with other 'decent' scopes (Seen through a cheap ACM one before..but for that I might as well run irons, it was that bad) but initial impressions of the illumination is FRIGGIN AWESOME!
Red illumination at lowest setting #1
Red illumination at highest setting #5
Blue illumination setting at lowest setting #1
Blue illumination at highest setting #5
Btw for the highest illumination setting it seems like the dot and doughnut are bleeding from the edges...from my eyes they aren't. It's just the camera being sucky.
Onto the magnification part. So when I did my review I was in Uni in a joint society room. I had about 573 inches (14.55m) to have a view through my sights. I mounted my optic on my WE SCAR and took some pics through it at different magnification, from the lowest (1.25x) to the highest (5x). Any magnification in between are based off what the magnification etched on the optic:
The magnification ring with the magnification etched onto it
Range with the camera at roughly the exact spot where the rear lens of the VisionKing will be when I take my other photos
As you can tell with the lowest setting at 1.25x you can definitely run the optic in CQB; it'll kinda be like playing Modern Warefare when you look through the Eotechs and they have that slight magnification.
For the sake of comparision, here's my ACOG with the rear lens mounted to the same position on my SCAR, and it should be the best replica you can get in the clone market (but it still sucks, 1 inch eye relief, that thing was a neck strainer on my fixed stock M16A3 D. It's rated at 4x magnification....whether it really is, I dunno. Actually if anyone can tell me how to check whether a magnified optic is at a certain magnification it'll be great!
ACM ACOG TA01 NSN at 4x magnification
Piggy backed doctor sight at no magnification just for the sake of it
In my Arnies review I added this part on later; but I'll put it here for this review. Here's the parallax adjustment for the scope. Not sure if the ACM ones have it but this one sure does:
Note that the picture above doesn't show the max adjustments; I was just afraid to go further in case the whole thing comes off if it's not locked into the scope body...hey, it's still a China made optic (albeit a very good one), who knows what will happen. Plus, my parallax setting is very near the zero setting anyway, so I don't need to turn the adjustment that far backwards to set the parallax.
As for how I took those photos...they were a pain in the ass! Remember, I am holding onto a heavy rifle without a bipod and trying to balance it on top of a short mag and my bag in order to get it to raise itself to a height where I can aim at the door. I think had to use my chin to hold the rear end to completely balance the rifle whilst holding onto the scope with my left hand and taking pics with my right hand....it was annoying, to say the least!
And here's the manual (I don't bother linking them as photos since it's not a big deal anyway):
So, overall I think this scope is great and from what I can tell it seems like the VisionKing stuff is designed for real steel rifles; though it's made in China along with the rest of the clones the glass is better and the finish is also better. Nothing's painted and everything looks and feels pretty nice for a scope (again, no experience with the real deal that's made in the USA...). Is it what I was hoping for? Well considering the huge line of text I wrote above, yes it is! I'll def. recommend this scope (along with the LaRue mount) for those who want something that can work as both an ACOG and Aimpoint simultaneously without the need to mount the fragile and way too high doctor sight on the ACOG. Plus, my total package for the mount and scope is much less than getting an ACM 1-4x Elcan SpecterDR, and the clones are damn expensive and don't work well from the reports I've heard.
I'll see if I can get some game time with this (gotta find a way to protect the glass first!) and will report back with updates when I can. I hope this review helps those who want something like the S&B Short Dot and want something of quality too. As a last parting gift from all the words I like to type, here's some gun porn!
BUILDING FIRE LARUE SPR 1.5 MOUNT REPLICA
When I did my VisionKing optic review and taking pics for it I thought I might as well review the BF LaRue SPR mount I bought from ACMGear as well. Great prices blah blah blah...those of you who've bought from ACMGear probably know about that anyway, if you haven't then I'll just give my own seal of approval to them again!
Anyway, let's cut the essays I write short and onto the photos! First thing though, I already mounted and screwed down my VisionKing optic, so I don't have pics of the mount alone. Though if you want to see what it's like I guess just Google for pics?
So, the mount is solid and is painted...but for the price what were you really expecting? To me as long as the mount holds, stays levelled and the screws don't strip from the mount making my optic fly off my gun it's good enough for the price. Oh, that and the trademarks!
Trades aren't bad at all, clear, crisp and I believe true to the real deal.
Those of you wondering what the underside looks like, here you go!
You can see that it has two lugs that fit into the RIS system, and the mount is held onto the RIS via LaRue's lever design. I've never played with real steel mounts before (only airsoft stuff in Hong Kong...I'm not like Noveske!), but from all the types of levers I've seen, along with the screw mounts for airsoft (which mimics real steel) the LaRue levers are the most convenient way of mounting an optic solidly to the rails in my experience...I could go all day flicking the levers on and off, it's addictive......(I've got issues don't I...)
Here's a pic of the screws that go into the vertical mount rings:
They fit my VisionKing optic perfectly. I thought the top part would've had a gap but once you really tighten down the screws everything just fits together. The metal used isn't made of cheese either, so the mount seem to lock onto both the RIS and the optic itself very nicely.
Here's three pics of the levers:
Dunno what to say about them really other than the stuff I wrote already. But it's damn easy to use the levers. Basically just pull the one that doesn't have a lock out first, then do the one with the lock. This goes for putting the mount on and pulling it off.
Now, since it's ACM stuff you'd expect the mount to not stay level as it's hidden blemish from when you take it out of the package to inspect it as it might look all nice and dandy and then when you stick it on a rail, BOOM! It's canted towards the right...
But, for the LaRue SPR mount, the one I received (we all know ACM stuff have varying QC issues, so I'll speak for my own mount) didn't need any adjustments on the lever nuts to get it to fit tight and snugly on my G&P receiver rails, G&P Sentry AEG fron rail, and my WE SCAR rail. From visual inspection the mount is levelled with the RIS. I don't have access to a level myself to really check if it's levelled but I trust my eyes and it is level to me.
For the price I paid and it's quality, both externally and functionally I have no hesitation to recommend this mount to others as long as the QC holds up. Given that the mount is casted anyway I would think that as long as you adjust the lever nut tension correctly the mount should stay level as they all should've come from the same mold. I doubt for such a small part the mold will wear down easily (then again I don't work in that industry, anyone with experience please feel free to correct me) and in general it seems like it's mainly the mount base dimensions itself that dictates whether you get permanent canting of the mount or not.
So for those into the looks or the way the LaRue mount functions and don't have money to get a real one this is a very, VERY nice alternative for airsoft.
1st EDIT: Removed the link to RSOV given MaciekA's reply to my post about rules and regulations on ASC.
2nd EDIT: Photobucket's telling me I'm about to exceed my bandwidth for my free account...changed pics to links
Last edited by intinerious; June 4th, 2012 at 12:56..
|July 5th, 2012, 14:42||#54|
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB
Mine are pretty good. It definitely survived a good amount of bumps 'n scrapes at Claybank. The big problem right now is shipping is a bitch because Shapeways is UPS only for Canada right now (brokerage :\ ).
They're working on it though.
Vita, Passione e Pistole
|July 6th, 2012, 02:55||#55|
|July 6th, 2012, 13:46||#56|
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Edmonton, AB
(Our import laws are very easy, it's mainly having to deal with export laws; this is OK for us to import)
|July 7th, 2012, 02:42||#57|
But here's the funny thing, whilst other stores list the mounts as out of stock, WGC lists it as discontinued. I checked King Arms's site and it's still under their products page....So, from what I understand UNCo have some sort of partnership with King Arms (or probably they are run by the same guys since UNCo carries a LOT of King Arms stuff), you should email UNCo to see if they know whether it's still available and if they can restock it soon.
I'd also send another email to King Arms asking whether they still produce the mount, and if so, where can you buy it (since they should redirect you to a retailer anyway....just tell them the above retailers that I listed either don't have their mount or is out of stock).
Hope this helps
|July 29th, 2012, 12:16||#58|
Join Date: Oct 2007
so to all who own a visionking like this: http://www.airsoftglobal.com/shop/in...ducts_id=12669
did you all have to order it overseas? i'm trying to get one and would prefer to buy locally or at least in north america.
"Do the interns get Glocks?"
|July 29th, 2012, 13:08||#59|
Join Date: Oct 2004
No one in Canada that I know of retails these things. I was supposed to get that exact one through an order from a local retailer but needless to say they dropped the ball on that order (and I ended up spending the money on the scope I would have bought elsewhere). $70 for that one though.... I was quoted $100+tax in country, which I guess is a fair price for them to take care of shipping plus a bit of profit on their end.
ಠ_ಠLess QQ more Pew Pew
READY TO >> RACE