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SWAT/Police

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Old April 9th, 2013, 13:26   #1
Pirate
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Police Simulation

Objective: The world of airsoft is filled with MILSIM and teams that are based on playing that style of games. The Canadian Police Simulations (CPS) (the name is just a working title) is about taking the focus in a new direction. This will look at a CQB style of play, but will also take into account the tactics used more by police services. Focusing on distraction and preservation of life rather than shooting first and asking questions later.

Organization: Initially this is not about forming a team. This will be comprised of many different teams, with members wishing to try a police style of play. Due to the nature of the game play, maturity and calm composure is a must. There will be levels of physical contact while attempting to restrain suspects and we donít need tempers flaring.

Method: Now this will not just be focusing on tactical officers. With the interest in policing ranging from SWAT, regular uniformed officers and well as detectives and plain clothed officers, this is a chance to work with all that law enforcement has to offer. Scenarios can range from drug busts, hostage scenarios, bank robberies, terror threats, traffic stops, and serving warrants. Not only is arresting suspects vital, but there will also be a focus on collecting evidence and dealing with witnesses and victims. This will involve heavy role play. We would not be violating s. 130 CC as we would be conducting this away from the public eye.

Now what I am looking for initially is just what the general interest is in this style of play as well as any suggestions, ideas, etc. Figured this was a chance for those people working on police style load outs to have a chance to use them in a MILSIM environment.

I think it could be fun, but was wondering what the communities view is.

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Old April 9th, 2013, 13:37   #2
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This is awesome. Takes things to a whole new level.
Just a suggestion or two that im sure you may have considered.
Thunder b or tornados with distraction kits could be considered flash bangs or gas nades for certian scenarios thus incapacitating subjects/suspects fof a set time (of course this is wherd the maturaty of the "bad guys" comes into play.
Also at times one or two "officers" could be designated as having rubber bullets in their guns (say if your shot with a shot gun its rubber bullets and aset time of incompacitation)
Again great idea id definatly be down for some of this.
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Old April 9th, 2013, 13:43   #3
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I was considering that the tornados are a distraction, so a hit would be considered a stun rather than a "kill" distraction. All depends on the scenario.

It's going to take a while to get this set up fully, just thought I'd throw out the idea to gauge the interest.
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Old April 9th, 2013, 13:49   #4
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Old April 9th, 2013, 13:51   #5
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Yes that is also a good idea i was just considering the effects of a flash bang.
Twice i was subjected to them once in the same room almost directly infront of me and once i was in the kitchen that was adjoined to the livingroom wherd it went off. Tho the flash didnt effect me in that case as the kitchen was open on both ends but had a wall between me and the nade it still had me grab my ears and i was disoriented for a short time 15-20 secconds or so
Long enough for the etf to execute their breech and have a gun in my face so you dont have to be directly in contact with one for it to have its effect on youif one goes off in your hallway and your in a bedroom door open your vision will be fine bjt your ears will feel like they got hit by a train lol
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Old April 9th, 2013, 13:59   #6
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The hand to hand and hands on stuff has come up before and it has always ended badly.

I would say walk before you run and do not incorporate that till the program is well established.
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Old April 9th, 2013, 14:08   #7
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This drives to the heart of Milsim or LE sim in this case versus the general populace of airsoft.
To the former, it's about simulating a role and you jusst happen to have airsoft guns as tools. To the latter, they are in it for the guns and their primary purpose is to shoot them.
Those folks will complain if they didn't fire their guns or get kills. To MilSim, an OP like FukA'WE was perfect and involved very little contact.
For law enforcement, there should be even more restraint on shooting and get the right people together that really buy into the concept, you're golden.
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Old April 9th, 2013, 14:15   #8
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We've done quite a few "tacsim" scenarios at TTAC3

including a whole worksop series on Concealed carry , including scenarios, in a bank, at a club, in a train. with combined active shooter and LE players with a large group of non combatants.

They are always very popular, but you need the right guys to do it.
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Old April 9th, 2013, 14:20   #9
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The hand to hand and hands on stuff has come up before and it has always ended badly.

I would say walk before you run and do not incorporate that till the program is well established.
This is good advise but it will always depend on the group.
I took martial arts for years when i was a lil younger and have no issues with being grabbed held choked hair pulled ect.. Of course not struck with full force or choked full force for training reasons but being grabbed by a wrist full force is fine. Just dont be supprised if your trying to restrain me and i evade and escape most if not all of your holds and grabs.
I think for those types of things one would have to spend time learning both how to grab and how to escape said grabs for everyones comfort once it becomes part of a scenario. Most of the basic holds and escapes from them can be covered in an hour or so snd can be practiced at home (good stuff for the wife/gf and kidz to know in this day and age).
As always when being grabbed and restrained in ways that can cause discomfort (ie pressure poins and joint locks) there should always be a "safe word" kne can say to have the hold released immidiately to avoid injury and such. But that said with most holds and restraining techniques if one complies and does as they are told (ie doesnt fight back and or try to escape the hold) discomfort is minimal and chance for injury is almost non existant this is why police snd security guards use those methods tbey controll people with out injury if the comply. Noncompliance and or stugeling csuee discomfort and pain forcing you to comply in order to release the pressures on joints and pressure points.
Most of the techniques are tought (both aplication and escape) at baisic self defence courses all around the world to kids as young as 6 and people in their 60's and older.
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Old April 9th, 2013, 17:22   #10
Mordarski J.A.
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This is something I've been toying with for a few years now. I love the idea of using scenarios to force people to think about what they are doing, for both the "law" and "criminal" side of things. For the law, acting in the interest of public and personal safety. For the criminal, knowing that if you do something dumb (like pulling a gun) it will likely get you shot and killed.

Nine years ago (2004) there was an event held in conjunction with the Forest Hill Police Department (Forest Hill, IL) wherein attendees had the opportunity to run through a number of different scenarios, ending with a battle against the Will County SRT (tactical team). The event was called Codename: Asylum, and the money raised went to purchasing training equipment (airsoft) for the police department so they could do practical training rather than dry training (if I recall correctly). I had contacted the group who put the event on, but it seems they have not had a similar event since.

These are the videos I used for inspiration while thinking about what types of scenarios could be run in an event:

Codename: Asylum (Felony Traffic Stop #1) - OP: Asylum 4 (Day 2) Felony Car Stop #1 - YouTube

Codename: Asylum (Felony Traffic Stop #3) - OP: Asylum 4 (Day 2) Felony Car Stop #3 - YouTube

Codename: Asylum (Felony Traffic Stop #4) - OP: Asylum 4 (Day 2) Felony Car Stop #4 - YouTube

Newport Beach Citizen Academy 28 - Citizen Academy 28 - YouTube

Newport Beach Citizen Academy 30 - Citizen Academy 30 Fall 2011 - YouTube


There are literally LOADS of videos like this online, but these got the thought process started.

The challenge that always popped up in my mind was limiting the number of rounds and magazines that each person has on them. If you are acting/portraying a Detective or plain-clothes member, you are likely to only have one spare magazine (maybe two). Uniformed members carry two spare magazines, but generally no rifle mags or anything like that. Some people may not like the idea of such a limitation, personally I love it!

Bear in mind this is based on my experience with law enforcement in Manitoba, and could be different when compared to other larger departments.

Food for thought....
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Last edited by Mordarski J.A.; April 9th, 2013 at 18:13.. Reason: Added video links
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Old April 9th, 2013, 17:28   #11
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Old April 9th, 2013, 17:35   #12
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The setups that Brian has done in the past where there's quite a bit of 'role play' or a lot of suspension of belief have been quite interesting...and strike a good balance between "reality" and "fun".

A couple of VIP escort scenarios come to mind. It takes a lot of restraint when one group is escorting a VIP and there's 5-10 other guys milling around/yelling/etc...and you "know-but don't know" that they're armed.

Right group of guys is key though....otherwise it turns into a quick-draw everyone's going to die lots scenario.
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Old April 9th, 2013, 18:18   #13
Mordarski J.A.
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....It takes a lot of restraint when one group is escorting a VIP and there's 5-10 other guys milling around/yelling/etc...and you "know-but don't know" that they're armed.....
Or, worse yet, there's 5-10 guys milling around and maybe only one is armed - but you don't know which one. Welcome to the life of the Secret Service LOL. That would definitely be an interesting scenario to go through.

A few friends of mine and I had a scenario we ran some years back, basically it was "cops and robbers". Cops had multiple magazines and could reload in the field, but were limited to a single pistol. Cops also had to identify their target as a thread (having a weapon) before they could actually engage. Robbers were limited to one magazine, but could use whatever weapon they wanted (excluding a pistol) and could shoot at whatever they wanted. It was a lot of fun!
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Old April 9th, 2013, 18:19   #14
Mordarski J.A.
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If it isn't obvious, I'm in :P
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Old April 9th, 2013, 18:22   #15
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Or, worse yet, there's 5-10 guys milling around and maybe only one is armed - but you don't know which one. Welcome to the life of the Secret Service LOL. That would definitely be an interesting scenario to go through.

!
We have done some "Walkabout" and handshake line scenarios, with PPD overwatching a primary..

6 out of 10 times the shooter was able to shoot the primary and escape , even with 5 PP agents standing right next to the principle.

I can't imagine what kind of sphincter contractions SS agents go through when POTUS decides to do a walkabout.
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