EH... I *DON'T* think so...

[firemachine69]

I have. I did.

All else being equal, I think I'm actually going to email off the Ebayer asking for his "source", reminding him if in fact it is real, it's a controlled item, and if it isn't, it would be a gross mis-representation of the product (but so far, we've concluded this thing is real).

I'm guessing you two are Liberal voters? You don't seem to mind if people steal out of the public coffers (ala LIEberal style).

Sad, sad world I tell ya...

[Yuxi]

Are you even in the military firemachine? because AP serves and Morbius has served, because so far it appears those who objected the strongest to this issue are non soldiers, while most who serve do not seem to care much.

As well, your really pushing it if you plan to accuse Morbius of voting Liberal, because he certainly does not.

[Yuxi]

Are you even in the military firemachine? because AP serves and Morbius has served.

As well, your really pushing it if you plan to accuse Morbius of voting Liberal, because he certainly does not.

[made Man]

Originally Posted by ArmedPacifist

So your saying if I put my uniform on for a game of cops and robbers in my backyard, I will be formally charged?

How would that be any different from airsoft?

Hell, what about when I wear my uniform home from exercise after the time I've been paid for is up, will I get arrested and charged on my way home?

Also, as I have stated MANY times in the past, military law cannot be practised outside of a military base (or government building), so if the military police show up at an airsoft game, they can't do anything, and even if they ever did, I would just say I'm not military, how can they prove that I am?

Why would the other 90% of airsofters who wear issue and replica cadpat not be charged also?

In fact quote me the CFTO that says I'm not allowed to wear my issue gear to play airsoft.

THEN we can actually have a discussion.

The only problem you EVER get from wearing issue stuff would be from colleagues (if you are dumb enough to tell them) who think they are morally superior by not wearing it giving you some flak, but thinking about all the money I've saved not having the buy the stuff, I can deal with it.

Would you be the one explaining why i have paintball shit on my uniform?
I accidentally got that shit on my DPMs, and it wont wash off after 3 washes in hot water.

[pugs144]

Originally Posted by firemachine69

I think I'm actually going to email off the Ebayer asking for his "source",

I'm guessing you two are Liberal voters? You don't seem to mind if people steal out of the public coffers (ala LIEberal style).

Sad, sad world I tell ya...

That's laughable. The eBay seller Boyanton doesn't have to tell you jack shit and will more than likely tell you to go eat a big fat dick. You don't have dog in this fight so GIVE...IT...UP. You already got spanked on LF.net on another thread regarding the patrol vest and it's apparent you have not learned your lesson. If you're a glutton for pain why don't you bring up your beef at Army.ca as well and see how long you last.

You want a worthy crusade? You want to rail against outright theft? How about this: The useless firearms registry system. A goddamn chest rig is a mere speck compared to absurd amount of money spent on this abortion of a system. Better get your priorities straight boy, because you're barking up the wrong tree. Of course you don't care about about the firearms registry system because you don't have any real steel, do you?

[firemachine69]

(Already on that.)

Oh, I got spanked? Please refer me to that thread.

Let me guess, you're another one of those all-talk, no-action type of forumites? This isn't my first forum in my life you know. Pretty easy to brush off your type.

Personally attacking me, for pointing out something that is ETHICALLY wrong (or so I seem to see/think so far) is my freedom to do so. If I'm wrong, fine, anyone or everyone can correct me. But let's say someone stole your chest rig, you know is serialized to you... I dunno, but I'd be pretty pissed.

Yuxi:

Umm, no, not Mobius? Pugs and AP (less so for AP).

If Pugs would start acting like a man, instead of just talking like one, perhaps maybe I'd let this thread die quietly.



AP: Wearing it is slightly different... If you haven't noticed, I'm not placing much blame, if at all, on the buyer (other then the Ebay one, that's a crazy price for piece of gear!), but the seller, especially if he knew there's a good chance it may be stolen kit. If not, heck, I've been proven wrong, and expanded my horizon by that much.

For those reservist who think its ok to wear issued kit for airsoft

17.06 – WEARING OF UNIFORM – RESTRICTION
17.06 – PORT DE L’UNIFORME – RESTRICTIONS

(1) Except that an officer or non-commissioned member may wear a military uniform of obsolete pattern that is not likely to be confused with current dress, no member shall wear any part of military uniform at a fancy dress ball.


(2) No member of the Reserve Force shall wear uniform except when:

(a) on service; or

(b) attending a military entertainment or a ceremony at which the wearing of uniform is appropriate.

http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/adm...17_e.asp#17.06


You can NOT wear issued gear for non-military purposes. So no wearing off issued kit to play airsoft.



On the issue of Civilians having controlled items
-copy an pasted from another forum

Canadian Forces Cadpat material & Uniforms made from it are considered controlled goods
due to some unique properties built into the material design. The ONLY persons authorized to be in posession of or to handle controlled goods are Military personnel, civilian employees and contractor's etc who have undergone background checks and security clearances. There is a reason for this.

I refer you here:

The "Controlled Technology Access Transfer Regulations" (CTAT) which fall under the auspices of the "Defense Production Act" ie: FEDERAL LAW
.

http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/adm...d/3003/1_e.asp

"Under the Defence Production Act it is an offence for a person who is not registered under that Act to knowingly examine, possess or transfer a controlled good
. The registration requirements do not apply to a person who occupies a position in the federal public service or a federal Crown Corporation, or is employed by Her Majesty in right of a province, who acts in good faith in the course of their duties and employment.

"Policy Statement
DND and the CF are committed to demonstrating responsiveness to, and responsibility for, all laws and regulations in respect of controlled goods.

Requirements
DND and the CF must:
ensure that all controlled goods are identified and afforded the necessary level of protection to prevent their unauthorized examination, possession or transfer; ensure that DND employees and CF members exercise due diligence and permit access to controlled goods only by persons so authorized under the Defence Production Act and the Controlled Goods Regulations
; and
provide for reporting and investigation if the security of a controlled good is compromised in any way
.
Authority
Authority Table The following table identifies the authorities responsible for implementing the policy.
The Vice Chief of the Defence Staff (VCDS)
has the authority to direct that the management of controlled goods be included in business plans.
ADM(Mat)
approve and administer policy for controlled goods."

Secondly, A Criminal Code of Canada Offense:
It's called Impersonation:
Specifically, CCC Section 419 Impersonation:
"Everyone who, without lawful authority, the proof of which lies on him:
(a) wears a uniform of the Canadian Forces or any other naval, army or air force or a uniform that is so similar to the uniform of any of those forces that it is likely to be mistaken therefore,"


So being as how the MND & CDS' Policy (and therefore the Federal Governments) on the wearing of cadpat does not give lawful authority to civilians to posess or wear cadpat, anyone doing so (or anyone
selling it on E-Bay etc) is acting in direct contradiction to the "Defense Production Act" and therefore is committing a Federal Offense. CF personnel, DND civilian's and member's of contracting companies who have been "caught" selling surplus or faded, whole, wearable garments made with the actual Canadian Forces patented material (this is applicable only the actual CF cadpat material with our special little properties - not any regular material printed with the cadpat design) have been subjected to federal black marketeering charges. They are also subject to charges under the CTAT Regulations...not good as your security clearance dissappears...just like that. Those purchasers of these "CF Genuine" garments are also subject to Federal charges relating to the possession of black market goods, and if they happen to be a CF member, a federal employee or a federal contractor, are also subject to charges relating to CTAT.

Many many sites sell cadpat uniforms which look like ours but are NOT the genuine article. Most will also point this out on their web-sites...They will point out that this material, although of a 'cadpat design' is NOT the material used to produce the CF operational dress. It does not come with the "operational capabilities" that ours does. If it does, whoever is selling it is comitting a Federal Offense, and so is whoever is buying it. See an example and their disclaimer here:

http://www.wheelersonline.com/detail...roduct_id=1010
Anybody and their dog with access to material, a computer and assorted green relish dyes can make a genuine "Cadpat pattern" but it is not "Genuine Cadpat material" because it does not incorporate our distict properties.....

Once again, if you are aware of the "Genuine Article" being made available for purchase to any non-authorized persons...you, if you are a member of the CF or the Federal Civil Service are obligated to report this
as described in the CTAT link given above. ("provide for reporting and investigation if the security of a controlled good is compromised in any way.")


All cadpat going through CF R&D sections for disposal (either worn, NS or Suplus) is to be "certified as demilitarized" (ie shredded into useless material that would, and does, make fine helmet scrim) prior to it's being sold off as "scrap material."

I would suggest to you that if you do indeed happen to come across some genuine stuff on E-Bay, you take a print screen and forward to your MP's for investigation. Besides which, none of the stuff on E-Bay is legally obtained therefore why are you paying this thief your money when the poor kid he stole it from is probably one of your soldiers with the pending Stores Loss Report and MP Investigation? What the seller actually deserves is one hell of a throat punch. Plain and simple.

Originally Posted by firemachine69

I'm guessing you two are Liberal voters? You don't seem to mind if people steal out of the public coffers (ala LIEberal style).

I think I just threw up a little in my mouth there..

[pugs144]

http://lightfighter.net/groupee/foru...351#5451065351

rw4th said, "firemachine69: would you mind sharing with us the experience base from which you are forming your opinions?"

Ok dewd. I'll leave you to your mission. Good luck with that .

[firemachine69]

I simply questioned WHY in god's name they went with an odd setup? Why not MOLLE? In any case, I never had the original question *fully* answered. Is it much superior to a MOLLE-type setup? To me, IMO, it seems like a step back to only semi-modularity as old "modular" setups used to run. Then just snaps on the top. Common sense tells me that's one more chance for it to flop around.

But, people on those forums did try to explain, those I thank as they put up with my gear-posts and such related crap, not "he'll go tell you to suck a big dick". Unless that Ebay seller would be you?

Then again, DND *did* decide on loading giant guns on something that reminds me of a lightweight jeep...

Meh.

Anyways, Morb, I know you don't vote Libs. Your posts in reference to the Libs are... memorable. :lol:

I'm just thinking, if it was *my* stolen kit (issue or not), I'd be pissed to hell, and I know alot of current military kit on Ebay ends up there because of that...

Pugs: Why don't you bring it up on LF? Not been there long enough? They'll tear you apart likely, as they KNOW special ops issue stuff isn't generously given away... Most likely way is theft. If you've been there for a month or so, you'll know their stance on stolen gear.

[pugs144]

Whatever keeps you going though the day... I already said that any CF member who's seen the auction would've already taken the appropriate steps to notify the proper authorities. But it's your energy; spend it however you want.

Don't start getting too pissy, you're not even in the CF yet. When you are, by all means spread your righteous fire throughout the land and shake your fist at God and demand, "I want gear justice!"

[firemachine69]

No, but this year, with my guesstimate of income, I expect to give back a fair amount. I'd say it's slightly twisted to complain about the registry, but not desperately needed stolen kit. Theft is theft, any way you flip the coin, isn't it?

Elsewise, one who STOLE kit to make a profit, knew fully well what he did was wrong, is slightly worse then idiot politicians that don't know their heads from their asses. At least they have good intent... for what's that worth (pretty much nothing, I guess).

[Adrian]

Guys, less flaming and please be keeping the politics out of it.

[Armedpacifist]

Originally Posted by -MikeL-

(2) No member of the Reserve Force shall wear uniform except when:


(b) attending a military entertainment or a ceremony at which the wearing of uniform is appropriate.

http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/adm...17_e.asp#17.06

I rest my case.

Originally Posted by ArmedPacifist

I rest my case.

You misinterpreted that. Wearing your uniform an kit for airsoft, etc is not authorized. What they mean by military enertainment, etc is like the Junior Ranks Ball, etc where you wear your DEUs.

Also, if you go out an wear your kit for airsoft an it gets damaged, you now have to pay for it since it wasn't damaged while you were on duty(ie training, etc).