issues with my high speed build.

ThunderCactus · July 15th, 2013, 17:20

Voltage is like the max speed of the motor, amperage is the torque.
Raising the voltage in an NiMH battery only increases the rate at which the motor receives that same low amperage, but it's still not receiving all the amperage it needs.
So it can spin plenty fast on a 9.6v batt, it just can't move much weight. That's why we used to use torque and triple torque gears to push 400-470fps springs back in the day.

lurkingknight · July 15th, 2013, 19:38

interesting... only managed 22ish rps maybe a bit more on my 7.4v 65C 2.25A lipo in my 13:1 lonex A1 powered g36.

Might just have to go 11.1v but maybe lower discharge... like a 20C 2000mah. See if you can borrow a 7.4 from someone like stealth says.

ThunderCactus · July 15th, 2013, 19:47

1300rpm is pretty good for any normal person lol
If you already have a mosfet with motor speed control, don't worry about the discharge rating

lurkingknight · July 15th, 2013, 20:17

true, the trigger response was great, but not ZIP ZIP ZIP.... it will be a lot snappier but not quite what you see in the videos we've posted.

Keep in mind he's already got 20 and wanting more. My build isn't the most efficient, there's folks out there with my specs running closer to 40 rps while I'm topping out at about 36. It might just be that they're using a slightly bigger battery than me since the g36 is battery space limited. So if you stick on a 11.1v you'll get closer to 30 for sure, something mild, maybe equaling about 25-30 amps will get you there on the motor you have.

the exact same setup as my g36 but with 16:1s in my p90 is dead on 30rps.

Hectic · July 15th, 2013, 20:58

http://www.airsoftstore.ca/index.php...p9bmh5if1lsrq4
Im thinkin one of these^ or simaler as i notice by measuring that i can fit most of the lipos on the site in there but i dont really wanna go crazy like 40c or something so im sure this should be good.
Again im not going so much for rof just trigger response the 20 is prety snappy and i know i cant make it like a gbbr(or can i?!?!) but id like it a lil quicker to respond then it is. Tho i will say its tones better then stock its not much better then my m4 with 16:1 gears a unmodified lonex piston lonex shell stock everything else except wires a merf and the same battery 9.6 1600mah and thats running 400fps

ThunderCactus · July 15th, 2013, 21:34

why is 40C crazy? You can run any AEG that takes an 11.1v 20C off an 11.1v 80C with no problems.

Hectic · July 15th, 2013, 22:07

Just seems like a bit of overkill for what im going for. Then again i know nothing bout lipos and c ratings other then what i have just learned lol.

Ordered that battery and some wire cause im apparently down to like a foot of it left and some extra motor connectors as ill use the last two of those i have and a POM piston head for good measure (and cause i was ordering stuff anyhow lol)
Cpl days i should get it stick it all together in the gun and see how she runs

lurkingknight · July 15th, 2013, 22:14

11v 40C isn't that crazy, it's uncommon but not unheard of. I think maciek has some pretty huge batteries that are pretty big, not sure where he's disappeared off to, I kind of expected him to chime in a lot earlier.

Remember that the C discharge is only part of the equation, that battery at 25C and 1200 mah will be discharging a constant rate of 30amps at 11 volts. You'll probably be into the low 30s with that battery and a good fet unit.

Going through some other threads on asm, I see someone was asking about their own 30rps build a few months ago, they wanted to drive 13:1s on a 7.4, and a couple reputable builders say it won't happen with 7.4s unless you use 10:1 siegeteks. Or 18:1 dsg, so you'll have to resort to 11.1 lipos. Which should get you most of the way, if not all the way with what you've got already.

Stealth · July 16th, 2013, 09:57

I think there's been a misconception about C ratings, amps, and how AEGs draw current.

Simply put: If your gun requires 20Amps to run, it will draw that amount and no more, even if you hook up a huge 11.1v 4000mah 80c battery to it (capable of delivering 320amps). Now, if you're seeing an improvement when going from say, a 11.1v stick battery to a large battery, that's because your stick battery wasn't supply enough amps to efficiently run it in the first place. I think this is where people get confused. A large battery won't damage your gun, it will only allow it to run as it optimally should based on the design parameters that the builder has specified (combination of motor, spring, gearset ratio, etc)

ThunderCactus · July 16th, 2013, 10:09

There's a very slight ROF increase when going from a 20C to something like a 60C battery, because the internal resistance of the battery is lower.
But I've swapped 20C and 40C lipo's in my guns and I couldn't hear any audible difference in ROF

Hectic · July 16th, 2013, 10:23

So 20c is like regular gas and 40c is like ultra 94
A car desinged to run on regular will run on premium with no ill effects
A car designed to run on premium will run on regular just not to its full potential.
Now i gets it. Thanks for clearing that up guys!
Just to figure one more thing. Those higher draw systems you speak of are either.
A. Shimmed too tight causing the motor to work extra hard to pull the spring
Or
B. Trying to build a setup like mine but say on a 120 or 140 spring (ie high rof and fps)
Is that correct?
I picked that battery cause its good for up to 30A and i was guessing based on what you guys have said that my setup shouldnt be more then 20-25A so that battery has bit of a buffer in case shimming is a lil off or something

Stealth · July 16th, 2013, 10:55

Why don't you get a wattmeter and actually find out how many amps your guns run instead of guessing?

ThunderCactus · July 16th, 2013, 11:04

The C rating is closer related to an air intake on newer cars (the intake itself, *not the filter*)
20C is a stock air intake
40C is a K&N, so although it has the potential to supply more air, the engine doesn't necessarily need it, but whatever air is being supplied is more available, so you're getting very small performance boosts.

As for the draw, I wouldn't worry about it if you know your shimming is good, and it's only a 320fps spring.
I'm curious to see people's battery efficiency using a 7.4v to run high speed gears around 1200-1300rpm mostly full auto, because I went to the opposite side of the balancing act; I'm using heavy weight triple torque gears and an 11.1v lipo to reduce constant and startup motor torque, increase the momentum on the gearset to more easily maintain full auto.

Here's an old thread, but very insightful motor info from minnesota airsoft
http://forum.mnairsoft.org/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=28181

My EF1300 stacks up pretty damn well to other motors, and keep in mind it's just a ferrous magnet motor. Enough torque to not bog down at any point and plenty of speed for full auto. Although a G&P M140 has a higher top speed, it's not nearly as efficient, it immediately smells of electrical fire after the first burst...
Soooo yeah, let's talk about motors O_O lol

Hectic · July 16th, 2013, 11:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stealth

Why don't you get a wattmeter and actually find out how many amps your guns run instead of guessing?

Cause im a cheap ass

not really more like a broke ass lol
I just gave ya all the spare cash i had around. Mabe next pay ill buy one. And one of them fancy chargers too. Coulda prolly got the meter this time but had to pay for shipping cause you dont do pic ups. (wink wink nudge nudge)
And thaks for shipping so damn fast ordered last night and CP says itll be here today lmao. I swear you guys have your own lil post office or somthing.

lurkingknight · July 16th, 2013, 11:30

lol. the 5-10 bucks for them to ship it isn't worth your time to run down to meet up where he would meet you if you did a pickup?

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July 15th, 2013, 19:38	#77
lurkingknight "bb bukakke" KING! Trader rating Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Ottawa	interesting... only managed 22ish rps maybe a bit more on my 7.4v 65C 2.25A lipo in my 13:1 lonex A1 powered g36. Might just have to go 11.1v but maybe lower discharge... like a 20C 2000mah. See if you can borrow a 7.4 from someone like stealth says. __________________ I futz with V2s, V3s and V6s. I could be wrong... but probably, most likely not, as far as I know.

July 15th, 2013, 20:17	#79
lurkingknight "bb bukakke" KING! Trader rating Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Ottawa	true, the trigger response was great, but not ZIP ZIP ZIP.... it will be a lot snappier but not quite what you see in the videos we've posted. Keep in mind he's already got 20 and wanting more. My build isn't the most efficient, there's folks out there with my specs running closer to 40 rps while I'm topping out at about 36. It might just be that they're using a slightly bigger battery than me since the g36 is battery space limited. So if you stick on a 11.1v you'll get closer to 30 for sure, something mild, maybe equaling about 25-30 amps will get you there on the motor you have. the exact same setup as my g36 but with 16:1s in my p90 is dead on 30rps. __________________ I futz with V2s, V3s and V6s. I could be wrong... but probably, most likely not, as far as I know.

July 15th, 2013, 22:14	#83
lurkingknight "bb bukakke" KING! Trader rating Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Ottawa	11v 40C isn't that crazy, it's uncommon but not unheard of. I think maciek has some pretty huge batteries that are pretty big, not sure where he's disappeared off to, I kind of expected him to chime in a lot earlier. Remember that the C discharge is only part of the equation, that battery at 25C and 1200 mah will be discharging a constant rate of 30amps at 11 volts. You'll probably be into the low 30s with that battery and a good fet unit. Going through some other threads on asm, I see someone was asking about their own 30rps build a few months ago, they wanted to drive 13:1s on a 7.4, and a couple reputable builders say it won't happen with 7.4s unless you use 10:1 siegeteks. Or 18:1 dsg, so you'll have to resort to 11.1 lipos. Which should get you most of the way, if not all the way with what you've got already. __________________ I futz with V2s, V3s and V6s. I could be wrong... but probably, most likely not, as far as I know.

July 15th, 2013, 17:20	#76
ThunderCactus Not Eye Safe, Pretty Boy Maximus on the field take his picture! Trader rating Join Date: Feb 2007	Voltage is like the max speed of the motor, amperage is the torque. Raising the voltage in an NiMH battery only increases the rate at which the motor receives that same low amperage, but it's still not receiving all the amperage it needs. So it can spin plenty fast on a 9.6v batt, it just can't move much weight. That's why we used to use torque and triple torque gears to push 400-470fps springs back in the day.

July 15th, 2013, 19:47	#78
ThunderCactus Not Eye Safe, Pretty Boy Maximus on the field take his picture! Trader rating Join Date: Feb 2007	1300rpm is pretty good for any normal person lol If you already have a mosfet with motor speed control, don't worry about the discharge rating

July 15th, 2013, 21:34	#81
ThunderCactus Not Eye Safe, Pretty Boy Maximus on the field take his picture! Trader rating Join Date: Feb 2007	why is 40C crazy? You can run any AEG that takes an 11.1v 20C off an 11.1v 80C with no problems.

July 16th, 2013, 09:57	#84
Stealth Mr. Silencer Trader rating Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Toronto	I think there's been a misconception about C ratings, amps, and how AEGs draw current. Simply put: If your gun requires 20Amps to run, it will draw that amount and no more, even if you hook up a huge 11.1v 4000mah 80c battery to it (capable of delivering 320amps). Now, if you're seeing an improvement when going from say, a 11.1v stick battery to a large battery, that's because your stick battery wasn't supply enough amps to efficiently run it in the first place. I think this is where people get confused. A large battery won't damage your gun, it will only allow it to run as it optimally should based on the design parameters that the builder has specified (combination of motor, spring, gearset ratio, etc) Last edited by Stealth; July 16th, 2013 at 09:59..

July 16th, 2013, 10:09	#85
ThunderCactus Not Eye Safe, Pretty Boy Maximus on the field take his picture! Trader rating Join Date: Feb 2007	There's a very slight ROF increase when going from a 20C to something like a 60C battery, because the internal resistance of the battery is lower. But I've swapped 20C and 40C lipo's in my guns and I couldn't hear any audible difference in ROF

July 16th, 2013, 10:55	#87
Stealth Mr. Silencer Trader rating Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Toronto	Why don't you get a wattmeter and actually find out how many amps your guns run instead of guessing?

July 16th, 2013, 11:04	#88
ThunderCactus Not Eye Safe, Pretty Boy Maximus on the field take his picture! Trader rating Join Date: Feb 2007	The C rating is closer related to an air intake on newer cars (the intake itself, not the filter) 20C is a stock air intake 40C is a K&N, so although it has the potential to supply more air, the engine doesn't necessarily need it, but whatever air is being supplied is more available, so you're getting very small performance boosts. As for the draw, I wouldn't worry about it if you know your shimming is good, and it's only a 320fps spring. I'm curious to see people's battery efficiency using a 7.4v to run high speed gears around 1200-1300rpm mostly full auto, because I went to the opposite side of the balancing act; I'm using heavy weight triple torque gears and an 11.1v lipo to reduce constant and startup motor torque, increase the momentum on the gearset to more easily maintain full auto. Here's an old thread, but very insightful motor info from minnesota airsoft http://forum.mnairsoft.org/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=28181 My EF1300 stacks up pretty damn well to other motors, and keep in mind it's just a ferrous magnet motor. Enough torque to not bog down at any point and plenty of speed for full auto. Although a G&P M140 has a higher top speed, it's not nearly as efficient, it immediately smells of electrical fire after the first burst... Soooo yeah, let's talk about motors O_O lol

July 16th, 2013, 11:30	#90
lurkingknight "bb bukakke" KING! Trader rating Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Ottawa	lol. the 5-10 bucks for them to ship it isn't worth your time to run down to meet up where he would meet you if you did a pickup? __________________ I futz with V2s, V3s and V6s. I could be wrong... but probably, most likely not, as far as I know.

issues with my high speed build.

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