I have a few questions.

[kalnaren]

Originally Posted by Rai

And again you all just made yourselves, out to be idiots. I never asked if that was a good gun. I never said OMG I'm going to get that gun and go to a game. I asked if there were any problems from ordering by walmart. I know exactly what quality that gun is. I don't expect to get cheap crap. I am going to be spending money. I play hockey I spend over $3000 dollars on hockey gear, I know exactly what commitment is required to make it in a sport.

However I do know this about hockey I have played with people who had nothing more than street gear playing on ice. They done that because they didn't know if they wanted to play, or not. So instead of spending money on gear that they might only use once, they got gear that was good enough for a test. The people they played with knew exactly what they were wearing and they respected what the person was wearing for gear. They gave him a chance.

First off, I think Outlaw's response was to Airsoft Newbie's, not yours.

Second off, you can't "test play" airsoft with shitty walmart softair guns. I don't get why n00bs don't understand this. They're not even in the same league as airsoft. Nowhere even close. If you came out to an airsoft game with one of those guns, you wouldn't enjoy it. EVERYONE else would have a rate of fire 10 times yours, an accuracy 100 times yours, and a range 100 times yours. You'd literally be able to throw the gun more accurately than they can shoot. The result would be the same as those newbies who invest in a sniper rifle for a first gun -they won't enjoy airsoft one bit.

They same thing should apply for airsoft, this is expensive the community is small and it will not get bigger unless people start shaping up. thankfully for everyone here I know that not all the ones here are jerks there are some very nice people. So what if someone shows up to a game wearing green and with a cheap walmart gun. If he can get AV'd there AV him and let him have a few minutes of play time. Give the person a chance let them see what kind of sport it is. That is the only way you will get allot of good players. Sure now we get a few good ones but how many just spontaneously said hey I wanna airsoft. There's probably a few but the majority have had friend's that done it. I found out about the sport from another forum. I done research and discovered that it could be fun. Granted this will take a small investment but even if I do not like it I can sell the gear and get back most of what I spent.

One of the biggest arguments newbies make when we tell them they need to poney up some dough is that we need to go easy on them for the sport to grow. Bullshit. This sport has been growing just fine for quite a few years -actually, it's growing it's fastest now since I've been involved in it. So no.. we're not going to harm the integrety of our hobby by taking it easy on n00bs and suggesting they come out to games with shit equipment.

Like any other sport or hobby, airsoft has a minimum expected investment.

[Crunchmeister]

"they got gear that was good enough for a test."

That's the key right there my friend. Cdn Tire / Walmart guns don't even belong in that category. They're not good enough to try out airsoft. There's a big difference betwee airsoft and soft air, with the latter being what these stores sell. They may fire the same ammo and sort of look like a real gun, but that's where the similarities end.

Now, before you plug me into the elitist $1000+ to start category, I should make it pretty clear that I'm all about affordable guns. Yes, I have a couple of expensive guns that I've sunk well over $1000 into not counting accessories. But I also have a bunch of lower end JG guns. And I love those guns and will support them as long as they continue to be good guns.

Hence my post suggesting that a beginner should start with something cheap that will actually be able to perform. How much fun will a noob have and how much of an incentive will they have to play more if they can't shoot more than 30 feet or even hit a target at that range where they're getting hosed by BBs from 100+ feet away with people with good guns? To me, that would be a pretty shitty game as a first experience and would pretty much kill any ambition I had to continue playing.

With hockey, a stick is a stick (to some extent). Give a noob a cheapo $30 wooden stick or a $500 graphite über-stick and it won't make much difference. To an experienced player it will, but not to a first timer. Cheap crap pads? Yeah. Those will do to try out the game as long as they meet the minimum protection requirements of the league. You have skates, pads and a stick, and you're good.

With airsoft, you need something that will perform to a reasonable level to be able to play. Hence my recommendation of a "cheap" starter gun consisting of a JG, G&G or ICS. Even a $160 Kraken will do the trick just fine. They'll perform well enough out of the box and actually be gameable. And should you decide you don't like the sport, then you can resell it immediately for almost the price you got it for.

Honestly, if you're looking to try out the sport (assuming you're 18+), find a local game and arrange for a gun rental for the day. It will be cheaper than buying one of these junk guns and will actually be competitive.

[L473ncy]

Originally Posted by Rai

However I do know this about hockey I have played with people who had nothing more than street gear playing on ice. They done that because they didn't know if they wanted to play, or not. So instead of spending money on gear that they might only use once, they got gear that was good enough for a test. The people they played with knew exactly what they were wearing and they respected what the person was wearing for gear. They gave him a chance

Like you said. Road hockey equipment.... Would you show up to an ice hockey game with floor hockey equipment? I'd hope not.

Think of it this way:

Walmart/Canadian Tire Clearsoft = Floor Hockey equipment
Aftermath and Cansoft = Roller Hockey Equipment
TM, G&P, CA, etc. = Ice Hockey Equipment

There is a minimum and that minimum is ~$250 plus minimum essential gear (add on an extra $100-150).

[Rai]

Again I am not some nine year old kid. I do know the difference between a walmart gun and a real airsoft gun. I have had people shoot me with both. Granted I do know when it comes to hitting a cement floor with either of them it does not matter who makes what.

The point is they are semi real. You can still do all the maneuver's and such with a walmart gun. This is not Halo 3, when there are seven year old's screaming about hackers when they just plan suck. If I bought a walmart gun I know exactly what I am getting.

But I cannot speak for everyone else but when I started playing hockey the guy's I played with never went easy on me on the ice. in fact I yelled at them for giving me space once. I enjoy a challenge if I had a cheap gun *note I did not make any purchases yet.* I would expect to be treated like any other player. But I would not want people flaming me for not doing my job not being able to hit anything for just sucking. That's all I ask.

Oh and as to renting a gun. I would much rather get a personal one. That way if it breaks I don't feel as bad.

First off, I think Outlaw's response was to Airsoft Newbie's, not yours.

Second off, you can't "test play" airsoft with shitty walmart softair guns. I don't get why n00bs don't understand this. They're not even in the same league as airsoft. Nowhere even close. If you came out to an airsoft game with one of those guns, you wouldn't enjoy it. EVERYONE else would have a rate of fire 10 times yours, an accuracy 100 times yours, and a range 100 times yours. You'd literally be able to throw the gun more accurately than they can shoot. The result would be the same as those newbies who invest in a sniper rifle for a first gun -they won't enjoy airsoft one bit.

Oh my bad. But what I said still applies, don't go easy on them but respect what they have. Judge them when they have better quality gear.

[Crunchmeister]

Well, it seems you have all the answers, so no point in posting here anymore. Have fun joining the sport bike race with your moped.

[pusangani]

fuck that shit, this isn't clearsoft canada, don't like that we are a bunch of "elitist pricks" ? go somewhere else.

Why should we make concessions for people that don't have any respect for the game itself, if they won't make even the slightest bit of effort, why should we welcome them? go back to operatorchan or w.e. and cry about how those assholes at ASC dumped on you, but hear this, For every one butthurt noob that goes away with his ass shredded and burnt to a crisp, there are at least 10 noobs that listen to the advice of more experienced players, and make themselves at home in the community.

How could the sport have grown to what it is today if this wasn't a fact?

How could ASC be as popular and have such a high rate of membership if every new person got turned away?

[m102404]

Originally Posted by pusangani

fuck that shit, this isn't clearsoft canada, don't like that we are a bunch of "elitist pricks" ? go somewhere else.

Why should we make concessions for people that don't have any respect for the game itself, if they won't make even the slightest bit of effort, why should we welcome them? go back to operatorchan or w.e. and cry about how those assholes at ASC dumped on you, but hear this, For every one butthurt noob that goes away with his ass shredded and burnt to a crisp, there are at least 10 noobs that listen to the advice of more experienced players, and make themselves at home in the community.

How could the sport have grown to what it is today if this wasn't a fact?

How could ASC be as popular and have such a high rate of membership if every new person got turned away?

Because some of you fuckers wouldn't leave...no matter how many times they were banned...

(and you're a decent guy in the end Sunil!...or cool guy or whatever you and steve have cooked up)

[pusangani]

hehehehe thanks, oh man I don't know what I'd do if I got perma banned from this place, too much good times on the 'ole ASC

[airsoft newbie]

i think his point was that he just wants to try out airsoft, not go to a serious game, but just with friends who have clearsoft anyways. From what he said, I think he is looking into a better gun, just after he knows this is a sport he wants to get into. Personally, I started out with a few crossman guns then moved into a Kraken which suited my budget perfectly as well as being very reliable to this point. Also, I made sure this is what I wanted to and if anything, having the worst gun at one point made me want to get a better one and kick some ass.

[Rai]

Originally Posted by Crunchmeister

Well, it seems you have all the answers, so no point in posting here anymore. Have fun joining the sport bike race with your moped.

I'm about ready to get one of those canadian tire shotguns just to spite you.

I got more than what I wanted, and FYI I already have a good gun picked out. I just asked a question.

[Ktown Militia]

Originally Posted by Rai

I'm about ready to get one of those canadian tire shotguns just to spite you.

I got more than what I wanted, and FYI I already have a good gun picked out. I just asked a question.

Why oh-why..... good luck mate.

[Rai]

Originally Posted by airsoft newbie

i think his point was that he just wants to try out airsoft, not go to a serious game, but just with friends who have clearsoft anyways. From what he said, I think he is looking into a better gun, just after he knows this is a sport he wants to get into. Personally, I started out with a few crossman guns then moved into a Kraken which suited my budget perfectly as well as being very reliable to this point. Also, I made sure this is what I wanted to and if anything, having the worst gun at one point made me want to get a better one and kick some ass.

Thank you, is that kind of thing to hard for people to understand.

[Crunchmeister]

Originally Posted by Rai

I'm about ready to get one of those canadian tire shotguns just to spite you.

Actually, if you read my earlier posts, I recommended those as being the only clearsoft guns that are worthwhile buying. I've seen several of them and tried several and IMO, they shoot as well as more expensive spring shotguns. And I'm sure most of the experienced guys around here will tell you the same thing. It's the electric models that we try to warn people off of. There's low end, and then there's the scraping the gunk off the bottom of the barrel models that those guns are.

[kalnaren]

What the fuck is it with you n00bs? You come here asking our opinion on CT/Walmart guns.. we tell you they're crap with the 2 noted exceptions (and mind you, we've been at this far longer than you guys have)... and you turn around and tell us we're full of shit?

If you didn't want our advice, you shouldn't have asked for it. Likewise if you already had your mind made up, you shouldn't have asked for it.

Nobody here is going to tell you that a clearsoft gun is OK to buy. They're not airsoft, they don't belong in this hobby, and we want nothing to do with them.

Oh, and don't give me the shit about "we just want to try it". Guess what? If you spend $350+ on a good airsoft gun, and don't like the game, you can re-sell it here for... wait for it... nearly what you paid for it. You'd be out maybe the cost of shipping if it's lightly used. If you spend the $100 on a shitty clearsoft gun and don't like it.... you're stuck with the gun, because nobody in their right fucking mind wants one. So guess which option costs you more money in the end?

Also, there's no such thing as a "not serious airsoft game". You're either playing airsoft, or you're not. Running around with a bunch of friends with clearsoft is little more than tag with BB launchers. This is another thing n00bs never seem to get: It's a lot more than just the gun that makes airsoft, airsoft.

[airsoft newbie]

Originally Posted by kalnaren

If you spend the $100 on a shitty clearsoft gun and don't like it.... you're stuck with the gun, because nobody in their right fucking mind wants one. So guess which option costs you more money in the end?

ever heard of a 30 day return policy?