The Amazing Race Gun Thread

[Shirley]

Go to IK, same place where ProG4 gets their stuff. I am getting the same kit (Shhhh) and mines taking over 7 weeks because it's custom starting from scratch.
Get it from Illusion, because Illusion can get you custom ones where the manufacture can cut the rear for a cocking handle. If not, there are ones where you can drill tap the slide and screw on a cocking handle.

[Thenooblord]

Originally Posted by Mr.Hitman

Go to IK, same place where ProG4 gets their stuff. I am getting the same kit (Shhhh) and mines taking over 7 weeks because it's custom starting from scratch.
Get it from Illusion, because Illusion can get you custom ones where the manufacture can cut the rear for a cocking handle. If not, there are ones where you can drill tap the slide and screw on a cocking handle.

I'm going on 6 months I think....

[Shirley]

Like Illusion says, something this expensive takes time, and recently, they ran out of aluiminum blocks.

[juicy]

Originally Posted by Mr.Hitman

Like Illusion says, something this expensive takes time, and recently, they ran out of aluiminum blocks.

"ran out" lol. Fair enough, at least you're getting quality bits of metal? I guess that's what you're paying for, isn't it.

I'm currently trying to figure out if I want to mount a RDS on my current Hi-Capa or just buy a new TM one and start all over again... now the question remains - would mounting a Doctor sight be worth the easier mounting job in the end? From what I've seen, competition pistols rarely have slide-mounted RDS, and I would assume that's because a frame-mounted bracket would provide more stability to the sight, therefore making it easier to aim, or something like that. Am I correct in thinking this?

[KEVORKIAN]

Originally Posted by Thenooblord

I'm going on 6 months I think....

I know of a guy waiting over a year for a couple of custom slides...WTF !

[Shirley]

Originally Posted by juicy

"ran out" lol. Fair enough, at least you're getting quality bits of metal? I guess that's what you're paying for, isn't it.

I'm currently trying to figure out if I want to mount a RDS on my current Hi-Capa or just buy a new TM one and start all over again... now the question remains - would mounting a Doctor sight be worth the easier mounting job in the end? From what I've seen, competition pistols rarely have slide-mounted RDS, and I would assume that's because a frame-mounted bracket would provide more stability to the sight, therefore making it easier to aim, or something like that. Am I correct in thinking this?

You can buy a SD mount that replaces your rear bomar sight. Basically with a Doctor style red dot on the rear of the slide, it's a bit harder because it's a moving red dot, where the frame mounted are stable. You can also get a Doctor frame mount as well too. It's up to the shooter to work their gun and how the shooter uses it.

[RacingManiac]

10 month now I think...

Capt KK is abit of hit and miss on speed....

Juicy, slide mounted one is easier to pick up the dot, since the height over bore of the dot is much smaller than a "stand-off" RDS. But downside is it still moves with the slide, so you need to reacquire the dot every time.

[juicy]

So the moving red dot DOES make it easier to reacquire after every shot? And with the race-tuned pistols out there (quick/light cycling in airsoft plus IPSC-type holsters), that'd be why most people use frame-mounted optics... I see.

Thanks

[Shirley]

Originally Posted by juicy

So the moving red dot DOES make it easier to reacquire after every shot? And with the race-tuned pistols out there (quick/light cycling in airsoft plus IPSC-type holsters), that'd be why most people use frame-mounted optics... I see.

Thanks

No it does not. Frame is stable which it will be easier to.
Frame mounted are just more easier that's why, not because of speed holsters and all. Practical shooting combines of accuracy, speed, and and power. Balancing those out will make you succeed.

[juicy]

Hmm, so you're saying it's just mostly trial and error until I figure out what works best for me?

Could you expand on why frame mounted is easier? I would have thought that mounting a RDS is simpler, as one only has to buy a mount and the sight, slap the two together, remove the old rear sight, and slap the new one in?

[Thenooblord]

slide mounted is closer to the barrel so inherently more accurate, but it moves when you shoot, making you have to re aquire the dot after each shot, frame mounted is further from the barrel, so less accurate, but does not move when you fire, so its faster to aim follow up shots

[juicy]

Therefore, it becomes a balancing act of do you want to hit the target right off the bat, or do you want to be able to quickly pop a follow up shot down range if you missed... so, how do you determine which style of mount to go with? That's the part I'm currently stuck on - is it just a choice that you just go ahead and pick, or is it something that you figure out by trying it on your own?

I'm getting the idea that I should actually know how I am as a shooter before I pick one or the other.

[Shirley]

Easier to pick the dot up with frame mounted as the dot doesn't move as much as the slide mounted. When you miss a shot, you're just using up alot of time to get back to that target, and shoot it again.

[Rob]

my prog4 slide set is going on 13 months. kinda comforting to know some are in the same boat as me

going on topic of frame mounted optics, is this microdot mount (this is from IK) (http://www.pbase.com/illusive_airsof...6/original.jpg) meant to be placed forward of the chamber, and how forward is it meant to be placed (is it user preference?)

[ILLusion]

Originally Posted by Mr.Hitman

Go to IK, same place where ProG4 gets their stuff. I am getting the same kit (Shhhh) and mines taking over 7 weeks because it's custom starting from scratch.
Get it from Illusion, because Illusion can get you custom ones where the manufacture can cut the rear for a cocking handle. If not, there are ones where you can drill tap the slide and screw on a cocking handle.

I'm not doing custom one-offs for people anymore once this current batch is done. The wait times are too long (and getting longer), and I make nothing off them. It's not worth the effort for me to broker them anymore.

At this point, I'm quoting two years for one offs for those who are reeeeeally desperate to get something done.

Originally Posted by juicy

would mounting a Doctor sight be worth the easier mounting job in the end? From what I've seen, competition pistols rarely have slide-mounted RDS, and I would assume that's because a frame-mounted bracket would provide more stability to the sight, therefore making it easier to aim, or something like that. Am I correct in thinking this?

It's definitely easier to mount, but it's not done very often, because shooters have to deal with tracking a moving dot, as well as the slightly heavier weight slowing down the slide a bit. Most shooters don't like moving dots, as SightTrackers and frame mounted sights have proven; these types of sights don't move so much relative to sights that move with the slide.

In any case, the primary reason it's not used so often is because of the dot moving with the slide, but if you can manage it, I'd say do it. I have a build that uses it, but I don't use it too often. Picking up the sight is more natural than with a raised reflex sight.

Originally Posted by Mr.Hitman

You can buy a SD mount that replaces your rear bomar sight. Basically with a Doctor style red dot on the rear of the slide, it's a bit harder because it's a moving red dot, where the frame mounted are stable. You can also get a Doctor frame mount as well too. It's up to the shooter to work their gun and how the shooter uses it.

The SD mount is no good. It wobbles too much. IK designed one with a bolt that goes through the top, making use of the threaded hole in the top of the BBU. (The 4.3 holds the rear sight to that hole.)

Originally Posted by juicy

Could you expand on why frame mounted is easier? I would have thought that mounting a RDS is simpler, as one only has to buy a mount and the sight, slap the two together, remove the old rear sight, and slap the new one in?

Frame mounted is easier to track on each shot, because the dot DOESN'T move with the slide, whereas a slide mounted one does..... see how that works?

On the other side of the coin, slide mounted optics are much closer to your natural line of sight across the top of the slide, and because the bore to height difference isn't as great as with a CMore attached to a frame mount, you'll also be able to pick up the dot more naturally (if you're used to shooting with open sights), and you'll also have less parallax issues.

Using a frame mounted sight (like a Cmore) does have a learning curve involved, as you'll have to learn to readjust for the higher dot. When you first use it, it will take you some time to acquire the dot.

Originally Posted by Thenooblord

slide mounted is closer to the barrel so inherently more accurate, but it moves when you shoot, making you have to re aquire the dot after each shot, frame mounted is further from the barrel, so less accurate, but does not move when you fire, so its faster to aim follow up shots

It's not "more accurate"... it has nothing to do with that. If you're using a Cmore and you have your dot zeroed at 10 yards, through practice, you'll know to adjust your dot height over or under the target based on your judgment of how far you are from the target if you are NOT at 10 yards from it. Like I said, there is a learning curve involved with using taller optics, but it doesn't make it more or less "accurate". It has to do with learning to control your point of aim, point of impact.

Originally Posted by juicy

Therefore, it becomes a balancing act of do you want to hit the target right off the bat, or do you want to be able to quickly pop a follow up shot down range if you missed... so, how do you determine which style of mount to go with? That's the part I'm currently stuck on - is it just a choice that you just go ahead and pick, or is it something that you figure out by trying it on your own?

I'm getting the idea that I should actually know how I am as a shooter before I pick one or the other.

You just pick one and stick with it. It's an emotional decision, generally... not much logic behind it, unless you're such an old shooter that you just CAN'T adapt to a new and drastic shooting pattern. I doubt you're that old, though.

In airsoft, the decision is usually based on how sweeeeeeeeet it'll look once built.

Originally Posted by Rob

going on topic of frame mounted optics, is this microdot mount (this is from IK) (http://www.pbase.com/illusive_airsof...6/original.jpg) meant to be placed forward of the chamber, and how forward is it meant to be placed (is it user preference?)

User preference. And yes, it would sit above or forward of the chamber, as there is no room at the slide catch or behind to mount it. Mount it as far forward as you like.