Systema Revolution gearbox info

[WarChild7]

Debuting at the Shot Show this year was the incredible new gearbox from Systema, called the "Revolution". a very fitting name, as this is the most revolutionary step forward in gearboxes since TM created the v2. it brings PTW technology into a standard v2 gearbox. Electronic fire control, no tappet plate, and 3-round burst are just some of the features available.



Here's the info, as I got from Wallace at Systema:

At the Bleeding Edge of Technology — The SYSTEMA Revolution represents the pinnacle of AEG gearbox development while maintaining 100% Ver.2 compatiblity!
» Guaranteed 100% backward-compatible with Tokyo Marui (tm) AEG bodies.
» Direct drop-in replacement for many other AEGs that complies with the TM Version-2 Mecha Box Specification.
» Advanced firing-control electronics and power-regulated MOSFET circuits.
» New loading mechanism / nozzle design.
» Hand-tuned high-output motor precisely matching the new gearbox's gear ratio.
» Extremely tight manufacturing tolerance ensures superior performance, shots after shots.



Advanced Firing Control — The SYSTEMA E.C.U. (Electronic Control Unit) is a direct decedent of the PTW's firing control unit, specifically tuned for the Revolution:
» Factory pre-programmed electronic trigger system.
» Optical sensor array constantly monitor gearbox operation, precisely applying power (and braking) to the motor so that the gearbox will always cycle completely at every trigger pull. This new function entirely eliminates the need for anti-reversal latch.
» By reading/counting the optical sensor output, the Revolution is also capable of providing the world's most reliable 3-shot burst operation. No more fiddling with inconsistent "timer based" burst mechanism!
» MOSFET regulated power delivery circuit, ensuring stable and consistent performance.



Performance and Reliability — Innovation is only half the story. The SYSTEMA Revolution will not miss the mark in terms of performance and reliability:
» Patent Pending nozzle design eliminates breakage-prone (and decade-old) tappet plates.
» High-strength, all steel gear set ensures reliable operation year after year.
» Full-length steel rack gear greatly extends piston life.
» Top quality components used overall.
» Factory-backed U.S. warranty when installed by a certified SYSTEMA Gunsmith.



And, to answer some of your questions before you ask them:

Q. When will the Revolution be available for order?
A. Final R&D is scheduled to complete by end of March 2008, with tooling and production to begin shortly thereafter.

Q. What is the retail price?
A. Final retail price has not yet been set, and may differ from country to country due to logistic cost, import duty, tax, and other factors. However we are working diligently to offer the Revolution in the most competitive pricing. Please check with your local retailer / distributor for your local retail price.

Q. What is "Version 2 Compatible? Isn't the Revolution a brand-new product?
A. "Version 2" refers to the second generation of Tokyo Marui's mecha box (gearbox) design, which is used in their M4, M16, MP5, and G3 series airsoft rifles. However, internally speaking the Revolution share very little with the TM Version-2 mecha box. When we say "Version 2 Compatible" it is only in reference to the external shape; meaning the Revolution will fit inside any AEG body that is designed to accept a TM Version 2 Mecha Box. You should not attempt to install TM Version-2 components inside the Revolution.

Q. Does it means the Revolution will work in my Classic Army (or insert name of your favorite AEG manufacturer) M4?
A. Yes and Maybe Yes. As long as the manufacturer strictly adhere to the Tokyo Marui design specification, the Revolution will fit snuggly and perfectly. However, throughout the years we have learned that as manufacturing process changes, some AEGs have morphed slightly from their original shape (be it due to improvements made or loosen manufacturing tolerance) that some dimensions have becomes slightly out-of-spec. Therefore, the Revolution may fit perfectly in some brands of AEGs but require modification on another brand. Since Tokyo Marui technically had never officially allowed anyone to "clone" their mecha box, these variations are impossible to control. However, in light of compatibility most reputable AEG manufacturers will attempt to keep their specification as close to an TM mecha box as possible. As of this writing, most mainstream M4/M16 AEGs on the market will accept the Revolution with no (or very minor) modification. Once the Revolution is officially released, we will compile a compatibility list based on user feedbacks.

Q. Is there going to be a "Version 3 Compatible" Revolution?
A. As of this writing there is no current development for a "Version-3 Compatible" Revolution, however we do not rule out future possibilities. Once the new product has hit the ground running, we will have more R&D resources that we can devote to other projects.

Q. What is "Electronic Trigger Control" and why is it cool?
A. Traditionally all AEGs uses mechanical trigger control, whereas the trigger simply serves as the "on/off" switch and during semi-auto operation, a mechanical lever disconnects the trigger's electrical contact based on sector gear position. This mechanism works, but has several draw-backs. First of all, mechanical components worn out over time. Many older AEGs have unreliable (or non-existence) semi-auto function because the "knob" on the sector gear and/or the "cut-off lever" are so worn-out. Secondly, mechanical cut-offs are inconsistent, leading to undesirable piston position between each shot. Thirdly, because the traditional design solely rely on the trigger as the electrical conduit, if the user "tap" the trigger too briefly it may cause the mecha box to only cycle half-way, leaving the piston "cocked" without firing a BB (which can increase the risk of accidental discharge in some instance). Forth, the trigger's electrical contact, especially when using high-power upgrades, are subject to heavy electrical load which will frequently result in undesirable sparks. The sparks may not cause any fire hazard, but often create carbon deposits on the switch assembly. This effect can completely disable the trigger under very short period of time. By replacing the decade-old trigger system with cutting edge electronic trigger, all of the above drawbacks are eliminated while adding advanced function to the trigger.

Q. What "Advanced Functions" are added with the Electronic Trigger?
A. First of all the mecha box will always perform a complete cycle whenever a user pulls the trigger. This feature greatly improves realism as it operates far closer to a real firearm, without the need to practice "trigger hold" (keep the trigger depressed until the mecha box completes its cycle). Furthermore, we are able to introduce "true" 3-shot burst function to a TM-style AEG. True 3-shot burst traditionally had only been available on gas blow back airsoft guns (via mechanical lever), or our own PTW using the same electronic trigger control. All other "burst" feature use either a timer (such as the TM SIG series) or some kind of device that monitors the voltage fluctuations during firing. Both approach has its drawbacks and was never reliable enough to always fire 3 shots when you needed it.

Q. How did you achieve Electronic Trigger Control?
A. The SYSTEMA Electronic Control Unit (ECU) employs advanced computer algorism and optical sensors to detect the position of the sector gear, and instruct the Switch Device to apply voltage to the motor (including reversed current for braking effect) at very precise moments. By the combination of advanced monitoring and power delivery, we were able to achieve instantaneous trigger response and reliable, complete cycle every time. The technology has been horned and perfected over the year in our PTW product lines, and has proven to work extremely well even under adverse environments.

Q. Why is there no Tappet Plates, and how did you achieve that?
A. The reason we wanted to remove the tappet plate is simple: Its unreliable and prone to breakage. To eliminate the tappet plate, we designed a new nozzle setup that allows the piston head to grab the rear-end of the nozzle. During the piston's withdrawal stage, it will pull the nozzle back allowing the next BB to feed. Once the piston reaches a certain position, it releases the nozzle which springs forward, chambering the BB. Once the piston is released (fired), it grabs the nozzle again and the cycle repeats. This new design achieves a completely linear force on nozzle movement, with zero lateral torque that is common to the old tappet plate design. We found that it is far more reliable then the tappet plate design and we are very satisfied with it.

Q. Why did you choose a 4-Gear Setup instead of the traditional 3-gear?
A. There are several reasons for the 4-gear setup. First of all, by introducing the 4th gear we are able to further expand the gear ratio beyond what is possible with the traditional 3-gear setup from the original TM design. Although this does allow for even higher torque setup, more importantly we are interested in the increased freedom to tune our gear ratios. For example we have already developed a specifically tuned motor for the 4-gear Revolution that offers unparallel trigger response. In addition, by minimizing each gear's overall diameter we can reduce orbital variations during gear rotation, thus improving gear stability and tooth-mating accuracy. Think about trying to tilt two dinner plates, with one of it being half the size of the other. If you tilt the small plate by 1 degree, its edge might be lifted by 2mm. However, if you tilt the large place (at twice the size) also 1 degree, its edge would be lifted by 4mm instead. The same can be said with using smaller gears; it minimize the variation, limit vibration, and improve gear mating — resulting in smoother operation.

Q. In regards to the new piston: Very few polycarbonate pistons on the market offers full-length rack gear inserts, because they seems to be unreliable. Why did SYSTEMA still use full-length rack gear?
A. First of all, full-length metal rack gear inserts are rare among polycarbonate pistons because the distance between the mecha box's main spring and the sector gear simply isn't enough. You can also think of it as the outer wall of the piston are being limited (too thin). In order to install the rack gear successfully in a traditional TM piston, the "base" of the rack gear must be made very thin, or significant materials must be removed from the underside of the polycarbonate piston. Either method compromise the stability and durability of the final piston assembly.



To illustrate, if you look at the cross-section of a traditional piston with full-length rack gear, you will noticed that the piston is shaped more like a "C" then an "O". This is very undesirable because the piston's side-wall is allowed to flex, especially during impact - and the end result is frequently dislodged rack gears. For the Revolution, what we've done is that instead of "patching" the problem, we addressed it from the root by first reducing both the spring's and spring-guide's diameter, thus allowing us to re-shape the piston's outer wall. With the new design, besides having ample space to fully support the full-length rack gear, we were also able to slightly reduced the overall size of the piston to reduce weight, and thickened the side wall to increase strength. This provide performance level far exceed any piston designs on the market today.

Q. Why is SYSTEMA seems to be adamant about using polycarbonate pistons? Wouldn't aluminum pistons also work?
A. Yes aluminum piston can indeed be used and provide some of the benefits without going through such extensive modification, but aluminum pistons has two major drawbacks: 1) it weights significantly heavier then polycarbonate, slowing down the cycle rate and rob performance; 2) aluminum teeth can never be as strong as purpose-made steel rack gears installed in our new piston. Some may argue that by using CNC-machined, T-7075 aircraft-grade aluminum and boring holes in key area can achieve similar (or even better) result, which can be true if executed correctly, but we believes the benefit (if any) offered by a such a setup cannot be justified considering the significantly higher cost. We strongly believe that our polycarbonate piston with full-length rack gear provide the best price-performance ratio in any piston setup.

Q. Are any of the Revolution's components backward-compatible with traditional TM mecha box design? Why?
A. During initial planning of the Revolution, we made a conscious decision to minimize component-sharing between the Revolution and TM Version-2 mecha box. First of all we do not want any limitations to linger among our engineers by imposing unnecessary "backward compatibility" requirements. Only by letting them "think outside the box" can we develop the ultimate mecha box for our loyal users. Secondly, establishing an entirely new standard on components also offer our users a peace of mind that they may not currently enjoy. To speak of it clearly, there are so many "TM compatible mecha box components" out there that we have, unfortunately, come across some very poorly made parts. For the uneducated users, it is very easy to have chosen the wrong parts (be it due to price or other factor) that, for example, may led them to accidentally install a poorly made gear set. Although most of them will seem to work just fine initially, some is known to cause premature failure. By establishing and maintaining all new components for the Revolution, we can minimize the chance of poorly made components getting mixed-in into our user's mecha box. This is very valuable for long-term use, especially when we fully expect our users to rely on their Revolutions for years to come.

[TrueTGN]

Awesome! Another step forward for airsoft, can't wait to see it in action.

[Donster]

Thats awesome. later on in my airsoft career, i plan on making a Zombie Killer M4. i think i will buy this mechbox so i can get both reliability and that awesome 3 round burst feature.

[Schwag]

I've been sitting on this for 3 days and it was killing me. I can't wait to get one. Or 3.

[LUTNIT]

Q: will the mechbox shell still blow open from high fps springs?

[Jixton]

Originally Posted by LUTNIT

Q: will the mechbox shell still blow open from high fps springs?

It look like it's re-enforced. I really love the 3 round burst option. Can't wait...

[COBRA-CC]

thank you for the info and the FAQ

[CDN_Stalker]

Very cool nozzle/piston head design. Overall I'd love to get one of these, but chances are high it'll cost about the same as a new AEG.

[TokyoSeven]

Excellent product and I look foward to seeing it on the market.
I wonder what the fps with be for that item out of the box, and if it will be possible to use other companies springs, or if systema will have a special spring design for the mechbox.

Its stated that its backwards compatable with all TM v2 aeg bodies, as far I know TM only has plastic bodies, but I imagine it shouldnt be an issue for those who were able to drop a TM mechbox in a G&P body without any issue, as for other companies I guess we will see but like the info posted says, yes and maybe yes.

Hurray for no more anti reveral latches!

[Lakonian]

Wow. Way to go systema!

[Tankdude]

Just saw on Airsoft-news that G&G is coming out with a 450 round hicap for 2008.

Kinda makes you want to kick G&G in the butt when you see what systema is doing.

[Renegade)]

Originally Posted by CDN_Stalker

Very cool nozzle/piston head design. Overall I'd love to get one of these, but chances are high it'll cost about the same as a new AEG.

My thought exactly... Canadian Prices? 5-600 anyone think?

[Omi-san]

I wants it.

[ILLusion]

WOW!!! As a drop-in option, this is really really great news. But as a PTW user and accustomed to the flexibility allowed with the availability of quick takedowns and quick spring/cylinder swaps, this option does have its limitations. Although, if going in to a platform such as the MP5, you automatically negate those two benefits already.
But as an intermediate step between oldschool AEG and a full-on PTW, this is good news and a great innovation in gearbox redesign. It is much welcomed.

Originally Posted by LUTNIT

Q: will the mechbox shell still blow open from high fps springs?

I don't think so. Look at the forward section where breakage use to occur - it is now thoroughly reinforced now that the tappet plate space is filled up.

Also, look at how the cylinder head is mounted - it looks like a much more robust design.

The other issue with Systema/Progear-type "reinforced" gearboxes was that the mechanical trigger's rearward motion was stopped (in semi-auto action) by a thin little tab that always managed to snap off. With this new design, that tab is no longer required, which means one more piece of reliability achieved.

Originally Posted by CDN_Stalker

Very cool nozzle/piston head design. Overall I'd love to get one of these, but chances are high it'll cost about the same as a new AEG.

Although initial thought on that is correct as current complete Systema gearboxes cost over $360 as a landed and stocked item, I believe this Revolution gearbox will cost less than $500 as a landed/stocked price in Canada GIVEN Systema hold true on their statement that "we are working diligently to offer the Revolution in the most competitive pricing."

Originally Posted by TokyoSeven

I wonder what the fps with be for that item out of the box, and if it will be possible to use other companies springs, or if systema will have a special spring design for the mechbox.

Like that readup states, it uses a new Systema spring that has a smaller diameter spring. In detail, the spring has a smaller diameter to fit in to the new pistons, which have a thicker wall, and thus, a smaller internal diameter for the spring to fit in. I also hear through the grapevine that this design should be able to handle up to M170 springs... youch!

Originally Posted by TokyoSeven

Its stated that its backwards compatable with all TM v2 aeg bodies, as far I know TM only has plastic bodies, but I imagine it shouldnt be an issue for those who were able to drop a TM mechbox in a G&P body without any issue, as for other companies I guess we will see but like the info posted says, yes and maybe yes.

What they meant by that, was that it will fit the MP5 series, M4 series, M16 series, SR16, S-System, and G3 platforms. They weren't saying TM has different body materials.

[dodger_me]

Considering ONE of the boards in that is ~400... i can easily see it being 1000