Interesting discovery regarding air leaks

[CDN_Stalker]

This isn't for everyone, but the info is interesting for all airsofters/gun techs.

Often times this year when shooting my CA M24 I've found my shots had veered off to the right after about 150-180ft, making things pretty frustrating. Obviously I attributed this to wind, as anyone who watches the flight of their BBs travelling own range.

Just within the past hour I've been toying around with my M24, sorting out what mods and tuning to do over the winter for next season's games. I have a worn out Laylax 150SP spring in it, it's shooting right now (after two years of use) in the ballpark of 470-480fps with 0.20g BBs. This really has nothing to do with my "discovery" however.

I decided to check for sealing between my nozzle and the hop up unit/rubber, I fired up my Streamlight Scorpion, held it in my magwell, and with an empty chamber (and eye protection for those wondering) saw a decent amount of light shining through on the right side of my chamber. I loaded a BB in to check again, same thing, light passing the right side of the BB.

While this is an airleak, here's the interesting part. I sorted out what effect a leak on one side might have on a BB. It's the air leaking on the right side passing the BB and the higher pressure on the left side of the BB that is causing my rounds to have that slight hook to the right after a certian distance.

In my case, I have to adjust the two screws on either side of the hop up unit (the screws secure........ and now I find out center........ the inner barrel) to get rid of that imbalance of leakage/pressure.

Figured I'd post this for the sake of interest, if you find your BBs hook at a certain distance repeatedly, check your inner barrel to make sure it's properly centered, hop up rubber is instact, clip that holds the inner barrel to the hop up unit is intact with no cracks (this causes large fps droppage), etc.

[ThunderCactus]

Thanks for sharing, Stalker
I suspect a similar problem in Darkalman's FN FAL, but around the whole nozzle and not just one side....We'll try a different nozzle.

Good find. Thanks!

[mcguyver]

This is likely a M24-only solution and issue. Most AEG hop-ups do not have any adjustment or play in the inner barrel as it is, and they don't offer any options with the stock nozzle. It is what it is.

Airseal problems with an AEG usually manifest themselves in grossly low velocity, rather that a hooked shot at 180 feet, unless you are a twit when installing your rubber and bucking.

Man, am I glad I never have to deal with farting around with AEG (or springer) nozzles and hop-ups ever again. Too many variables to guarantee any kind of durabilty or consistancy.

[Dracheous]

Wow, do you foam at the mouth waiting for opportunities to praise the PTW over all else?


Hey Stalker, there should also be a pair of O-rings in the hop up units to help with that. They are a bitch to install too, I remember giving up on the second one as it was half inch down the unit and was difficult to get tools in there. One thing I've been wondering lately Stalker, is that on a "lesser" aeg hop up, you usually only have the one brass ring to centre up the inner barrel, I wonder if two would improve it? IE, one on either side of the C-clip? Also I remember in my bushmaster G&P hop up, that the brass ring would slide out easily, so I applied scotch tap to the ring and it snugged up good.

[mcguyver]

Originally Posted by Dracheous

Wow, do you foam at the mouth waiting for opportunities to praise the PTW over all else?

I don't recall typing anything above that said PTW. You assume too much.

Originally Posted by Dracheous

People have jumped the band-wagon of PTW for life, because it makes sense. You have a gun that is top of the line, the most accurate airsoft device there is, and costs only a little more than building a supreme device from scratch. And to top it off, taking this thing out of the box, out ranges just about any bolt action rifle ((gas or bolt at field legal FPS)) there is out there, and just about every AEG as well. Bang for buck, PTW really does take it. Its just that insane price tag to begin with that really offsets people from nabbing one, and I don't blame those people either.

Originally Posted by Dracheous

Range is not only how far the round can travel, but also how far you can control it. I had a fully tuned APSII SV, that fired 500FPS, having tried the PTW, I can tell you that the PTW will range and and get more rounds on target than my APS could.

The PTW's hop up design is superior to that of any airsoft device on the market. Its ability to harness maximum efficiencies enables it to range and get better accuracy than the bolt action. To top it off, when dealing with ranges that the BA finds it self short, the PTW can fire a burst and increase its ability to knock down the target at range. Still, the largest advantage to bolt action is sound, or rather the lack there of. The PTW I've gotten my hands on and tried was the M4 and CBR version MAX. And I fully intend to get myself a CQBR to go hand in hand with a BA rifle, because they both can play at those ranges, and one has the purpose to allow me to remain undetected. However when shit hits the fan, the CQBR small and easily carried tandom, will be able to come up and knock down targets faster and further. Problem is now, there's a green wookie hopping and popping his way with a gun screaming death :P.

I think it's time you be quiet and let the adults speak. How quickly you forget what you typed only 2 weeks ago.

[Dracheous]

Originally Posted by mcguyver

Man, am I glad I never have to deal with farting around with AEG (or springer) nozzles and hop-ups ever again. Too many variables to guarantee any kind of durabilty or consistancy.

So what? You're playing with a McDonald's straw now?

[MadMax]

Besides, the PTW hop up is inferior to some TM hop up builds.

If you don't have access to an indoor range, try turning off your hop up and fire your rifle inverted and right side up. If you can reverse a horizontal veer by flipping the gun then there is something that is breech or barrel related causing your problem.

[mcguyver]

Originally Posted by Dracheous

So what? You're playing with a McDonald's straw now?

No. MacDonalds is for kids. Wendy's is for adults.

Originally Posted by MadMax

Besides, the PTW hop up is inferior to some TM hop up builds.

Perhaps. But there are no aftermarket parts for it. There are no mods to do to it that are really any better that what the design allows. There's no trying to make "X" part fit. It is what it is. Doff sells his version of an aftermarket cage, and it's better than older Gen 1-3, but debatable in MAX. There is no tinkering, unless your a sucker for teardown and re-assembly.

[Cushak]

Thanks for the tip Stalker. Just checked my APS, no light shining through whatsoever.

To be absolutely sure I tried it four times. Piston pulled back and out of the way, no BB (full light for a standard); Piston closed (cylinder head in hop-up unit), no BB; Piston pulled back, BB loaded; Piston closed, BB loaded (and bold up, safety on, and trigger clear). Had goggles on for safety.

First test I had full light (of course), but all the others it was pitch black.

[CDN_Stalker]

I know my problem/fix is narrowed down to the the adjustable hop up unit for the CA M24 and the APS2, but I thought the info regarding leaking might be of interest as a possible way to diagnose some symptoms as listed above, but I also added in the 'use a light to check the rubber' trick for AEG troubleshooting. It's helped me more than once determine why a few AEGs have had a drop in fps suddenly or over time.

And Drach, I know about those rings in the unit, but my unit is well worn and it was worn when I got the gun itself, hence my looking to buy your spare when you get your M24.

[HaZarD SFD]

Originally Posted by Dracheous

Wow, do you foam at the mouth waiting for opportunities to praise the PTW over all else?


Hey Stalker, there should also be a pair of O-rings in the hop up units to help with that. They are a bitch to install too, I remember giving up on the second one as it was half inch down the unit and was difficult to get tools in there. One thing I've been wondering lately Stalker, is that on a "lesser" aeg hop up, you usually only have the one brass ring to centre up the inner barrel, I wonder if two would improve it? IE, one on either side of the C-clip? Also I remember in my bushmaster G&P hop up, that the brass ring would slide out easily, so I applied scotch tap to the ring and it snugged up good.

Originally Posted by mcguyver

I don't recall typing anything above that said PTW. You assume too much.





I think it's time you be quiet and let the adults speak. How quickly you forget what you typed only 2 weeks ago.

Originally Posted by Dracheous

So what? You're playing with a McDonald's straw now?

Originally Posted by mcguyver

No. MacDonalds is for kids. Wendy's is for adults.

Dracheous = Fail

[kalnaren]

Hell, I don't own or have even played with an APS or M24.. but I found the post interesting and I think I have learned something. Who gives a fuck if it's only for those 2 guns?

I love how people bitch that nobody wants to inform themselves, and yet when a post like this is made people bitch that it's proprietary.

I found it interesting. I never thought of using the light to check the hop-up. Thanks for the post Stalker.

[CDN_Stalker]

Lol.

Ok, I've posted this before in previous posts, it's a trick for all guns to determine if your hop up/inner barrel is straight. Load with some decent 0.12g BBs, full hop up setting, hold gun as level as you can and shoot. The BBs will grossly overhop at a very short distance and you can see if they go straight up or cant to one side or the other.

[HaZarD SFD]

LoL. My barrel is 200mm long lol They go all over the place.