Creating a true marksman's M14.

[The Legacy]

Greetings, gun doctors! I'm looking into building a monster of an M14. Specifically, it's a long-barreled M14 with illuminated scope, bipod, and what I hope to be great accuracy at long range with semi-automatic fire (full-auto too if possible, but I'd be afraid of breaking something. :P).

However, things are never as easy as throwing on a scope and hitting something accurately. Instead, it will require a major rework of its internals, to upgrade its inner barrel, hop-up, and possibly the gearbox and spring. I know how expensive it is to invest in the parts, so I'm hoping to get it right the first time by asking here from people who've done this many times before.

To start, I've talked to my local gun doc, and he told me that the best way to make a long range, highly accurate rifle is to get a 6.03mm steel/aluminum tightbore (he said that 6.01mm is too thin and will cause the BB to fly inaccurately due to bouncing), with an upgraded (replacement?) gearbox and spring to compensate for the incredible power that would be needed to reach the range needed to be effective.

This boils down to a few questions. Before you answer, though, I'll note that this will be the first major project of mine, and that though I've got some experience taking apart and reassembling the gearbox, I'm far from perfect. As well, I do not want this to shoot over 400fps under any circumstances; I don't want this to qualify as a genuine sniper, as it requires a ton of paperwork, restrictions, and possibly even an outright ban as it would be semi/full auto.

The questions:

1) Do you agree with the assessment of my gun doctor, with getting a 6.03mm tightbore steel/aluminum barrel, upgraded spring and gearbox, and upgraded hop-up?

2) Regardless of #1, do you have any suggestions on what parts I should get for it, and what works best combined together? I know that upgrading can be a lot of guesswork, so I'm hoping to avoid it by asking people who've done this many times before.

3) My gun doctor said that longer barrels are less accurate, which is contrary to real steel but is the truth of airsoft guns due to the physics of the BB. Is this true?

4) I'm looking into also installing a foam suppressor; regardless of the answer to #3, I'd like to add one to the gun, to reduce sound from down range. Do you have any suggestions on what would pair well with such a setup?

5) Is it possible to get an AEG to fire heavier BB's (ie. 0.36's) in order to further improve accuracy, without dramatically reducing range? I know that bolt actions don't have much of a problem with this.

Thanks in advance.

[ThunderCactus]

Look at my "how guns work" thread in the noob section

Mechbox only needs compression, everything else is reliability.
6.03-6.10 barrel, 300-400mm is best
Rhop
As heavy ammo as possible

Using heavy ammo is also covered in the thread

[The Legacy]

Thanks Thunder. I'll go take a look now.

[pestobanana]

I have a M14 I've been running for about two years. I find .36 too slow, I prefer .3 and .32 at 450 FPS.

1. Sounds pretty standard

2. Depends on what M14 you get.

3. I have never done a direct comparison of a mid length barrel vs a full length barrel, but my R-hopped 550mm barrel shoots well in my M14.

4. A suppressor is bulky and not really necessary. People never hear me shooting at them with my M14 even without a suppressor.

5. Yes, I have an R-hopped AEG that lifts .36 BBs at 340 FPS.

[The Legacy]

Thanks again. I just read this thread, which is I believe the one you're referring to. Great writeup. So I understand correctly, the information I listed above is accurate; 6.03mm, a very good hop-up rubber, and a well-sealed gearbox is the key to accuracy and range. However, should I be upgrading the internals and/or the spring?

As well, do you have any suggestions on what brand of parts I should get? As well, if I understand correctly, the Flat Hop is the better bet for heavier ammunition. Where do I get such a thing? I see one on AirsoftDepot.ca, but is out of stock, and I don't know about many other recommended sites. Thanks in advance.

[The Legacy]

Originally Posted by pestobanana

I have a M14 I've been running for about two years. I find .36 too slow, I prefer .3 and .32 at 450 FPS.

1. Sounds pretty standard

2. Depends on what M14 you get.

3. I have never done a direct comparison of a mid length barrel vs a full length barrel, but my R-hopped 550mm barrel shoots well in my M14.

4. A suppressor is bulky and not really necessary. People never hear me shooting at them with my M14 even without a suppressor.

5. Yes, I have an R-hopped AEG that lifts .36 BBs at 340 FPS.

Sounds reasonable, though it's too hot for what I'm aiming for; it needs to shoot at 400FPS with .20 BB's, as I want it to be fieldable both indoors and outdoors. That said, I'd like it to be able to hit targets at long range with high accuracy, hence the post.

I'll look into more once I can track down some good parts to order. If I can get help on what brands to get, I'd appreciate it. Thanks!

[Jaco14]

Indoor limits is

[Hectic]

not sure where yer located but around here 350fps is the max for indoor.
in alot of cases if you lock it to semi you can run 450 outdoors.
as to your actual questions, most hage been covered.
but ill run a list.
good inner barrel
good hop rubber (bridge hop, flat hop, rhop)
good cylender head
good piston head
a good spring isnt really needed if the stock one is pushing tue fps you want, however a good spring should be more consistant, and maintain fps for longer then most stock springs.
good bbs, the heaviest you can use, likely .30's if yer gun shoots 400.

[ThunderCactus]

Originally Posted by The Legacy

Sounds reasonable, though it's too hot for what I'm aiming for; it needs to shoot at 400FPS with .20 BB's

He meant 340fps on .20s, but using .36s. So 1.07j

[Ricochet]

How do we keep getting posts like this? Like someone comes on here looking to buy an airsoft gun, with the intention of playing and has ever said "I don't care about range or accuracy". Range and accuracy is the end goal of every single player around the world. Like some way, some how you'll build a gun that'll outshoot all of the others you run into. You want a gun that shoots straight and shoots reliably, simple as that. If you want ultimate range and accuracy, get ready to open up your wallet, big time. Sniper rifles, DMRs, etc, do not by their very nature in airsoft shoot further and with smaller groupings than other guns. And although slightly increased FPS may allow you to run a heavier round, it can just as easily provide zero advantage at all.

You want a reliable M14 to build upon, yes? Start there. What's your budget? Gas or electric? How much do you know about internals and maintenance? The most realistic and best performing airsoft M14 is arguably the M14 EBR Level III with NPAS by RA-Tech. Already fully customized and upgraded with a flow control valve. Magazines are near $70 a piece and the to get the gun into your hands will cost you between $1,500 and $2,000 by itself. You have learn inside and out to keep it performing or you may run into issues in hot or cold temperatures. At its peak though, it'll decimate any other M14 out there. I think it's near seventeen or nineteen pounds though. But at least you can dial your FPS using the valve to suit your playing environment. Most indoor fields are 300 - 350 FPS or so, and outdoor 380 - 450 or so. An electric guns spring cannot be changed out quickly, so you'll have to completely split open your gun and mechbox each time you go from indoor play to outdoor play. Mind you a long gun like an M14 indoors will put you at a disadvantage due to it's maneuverability limitations. So I'd say buck up and buy the gas one, or get the an AEG like the Tokyo Marui or G&G and and also buy an indoor gun for yourself.

But no matter which one you get and/or how you upgrade it, some dude with a Systema TW5 (sub-machine gun) will out range you 50 - 100 feet, and have better groupings all the way. I have seen fully upgraded, properly tuned, and silent sniper rifles get outshot by a M4, and well tuned AEGs get outshot by a Tokyo Marui MK23 (pistol).

Food for thought.

[ThunderCactus]

Basically, everyone who wants a DMR comes off as intending to build a magic space rifle thats somehow better than any previous rifle ever built. As if there was some tiny secret we had overlooked in the last decade lol

You wouldnt know this in your first year unless you read a lot, but as it turns out, short barrel guns can shoot just as well as long barrel guns. So the whole idea of a DMR just goes out the window. MK18 ptw with a scope and a bipod really can be a DMR lol

[Stealth]

Originally Posted by ThunderCactus

short barrel guns can shoot just as well as long barrel guns.

Quoted for truth and posterity

[lurkingknight]

your target fps is too low to use .36s. maybe .3s at the most. If you were up around 1.48J (field AEG max) you might get away with .36s. .32s already at that velocity are pretty slow, 305-310ish.


muzzle pop is a thing but there's more noise that comes from the motor and gearbox. Perfect pinion to bevel shimming reduces the overall gearbox noise, leaving mainly the motor that makes the most noise, followed by the piston hitting the cylinder head. A suppressor will help a tiny bit, depending on the diameter of the can and the type of foam.

Sorbo dampens the piston punch to an extent among it's other functions on the cylinder head.

You'd be surprised how quiet you can get some guns just by shim and sorbo. The next is the reduce the time the gears run. The longer the motor has to turn the gears, the more noise is made. A fast ratio gearbox and a very powerful torque motor will get the cycle done in less time than a standard ratio or a torque ratio. We're talking milliseconds to run a cycle on a high output battery.

There are fancy computerized mosfets that can do precocking.. where after a shot the computer in the fet will draw the piston to a cocked position and the trigger pull will finish the cycle. Precocking is very slow and quiet when it draws the piston, but imo it's made a little obsolete with fast ratio/big motor/big battery setups.

I will have to disagree on the cost to do a quality setup... you're looking at 5$ for a sorbo pad, 15ish for a cylinder head, 10 for a nozzle and 10 for a decent steel rack piston body that can take some abuse. In most cases a piston head can be reused, just put on a better o-ring. SHS gears are great for 30 bucks, I have personally 4 sets in guns, 2 of them have nearing 100k rounds though them, and installed at least another 4 or 5 sets with 0 failures. A good enough neo motor is about 55ish, there's some cheaper ones on the market if you can find them with some research.

The single most expensive part will be a good barrel like a prommy EG which is a 6.03. You're looking at 90-100$ for that. A soft hopup sleeve for 5$ and an rhop kit for 20. For 25-30 more you get a basic mosfet to increase electrical efficiency and squeesze out a bit more speed in the system. If you want something with precocking I think ascu (crap) and chimera are the only 2 units on the market with that feature that will fit in a m14 and you're looking at 90-130$

Not sure what else you'd add to make it 1000$ if you already have the gun.

Originally Posted by ThunderCactus

Basically, everyone who wants a DMR comes off as intending to build a magic space rifle thats somehow better than any previous rifle ever built. As if there was some tiny secret we had overlooked in the last decade lol

You wouldnt know this in your first year unless you read a lot, but as it turns out, short barrel guns can shoot just as well as long barrel guns. So the whole idea of a DMR just goes out the window. MK18 ptw with a scope and a bipod really can be a DMR lol

There's a lot of truth here in experience. Not just from me, but stealth and TC who build a lot of guns. My p90 outshoots a lot of long guns on the field and it doesn't even have a prommy barrel.

[Renegade)]

Lots of good information here and statements.

My simple input will be go for consistency and reliability. Keep your parts to a couple of brands to avoid any mismatching issues.
You dont need to have the longest barrel you can get, find the one that is the most comfortable and make sure you match your cylinder and hopup to the set up you make.
Choosing an M14 is good for this set up, and you will match the part. A DMR can be any rifle in airsoft honestly, but a DMR impression means having the right rifle to look the part, as alot of airsofters do care about I myself play a DMR role, but my rifle and set up is in no way that of a real DMR. My point is, if you are ready with a good budget to go the proper distance with an M14, go for it but be ready to shell out more than if you just properly upgraded an M4 with the right barrel and compression system.
Its worth it when done right, Manchovie and Pestobanana up there can testify to that, but they can also show you the tear stains on their wallets from it.

In the end, aim for speed of bb to target and consistent shots and you will actually be effective as a DMR player. If you cant really meet these then you are just another Assaulter who hangs back.

[ThunderCactus]

Now don't misunderstand us; short barrels can perform as good as long barrels, BUT most of your range and accuracy is going to come from the hop rubber and therefore the hop chamber design. And the M14 has a wicked hop chamber design.
So definitely stick with the M14, but you could get away with using an M14 socom.