Misfeeding /shot-skipping w/ 9.6 volt battery

[Mysteryfish]

Hey, hoping someone can help me out:


- I've got a mildly upgraded G36C that seems to fire just fine with an 8.4 volt battery in it

- when I put a 9.6 volt into it, the ROF jumps (obviously), and it starts to consistently miss shots. It WILL fire BB's, but it's probably about a 1:2 or 1:3 fire to blank ratio.

- no jamming so far, just seems to not 'pick up' the BB's

- I'm using low-caps and I have not tried a high-cap

- I don't know what the hell "timing" is, and the last time I looked inside the mechbox, I got the impression that as long as the toothless section of the gear is facing up when it goes back together, it should be fine.

Ideas I've had so far:

- nozzle issue
- There's actually more to 'timing' than I thought
- the cyclic rate is now too high for the low-caps to feed consistently
- gnomes

Any suggestions?

[joker060]

gnomes....... evil........

But from the way it sounds your lowcaps may not be feeding fast enough. Try lubing them maybe?

[Mantelope]

Timing in a mechbox is a myth, so don't worry about it. Most of the time in this situation, it's the mags that are the problem, but that's usually because people are using highcaps. If you've only used one lowcap, try out some other ones... maybe the spring in that specific one is weak. Beyond that, the most likely problems are hopup alignment and nozzle.

[CDN_Stalker]

Any chance you did anything within the hop up unit, like chance anything or even just open it up and re-install?

Add in, when was the last time you put a drop or two of silly oil in the loading tube and cycled it through? That tends to be the main reason I've seen of misfiring.

[Mysteryfish]

Thanks very kindly for all your replies so far.

I appreciate them greatly.


More info:
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- the problem occurred with three separate low-cap magazines

- The magazines were all recently oiled

- I may have shifted the hop-up when I re-installed the ..."forward assembly", although I didn't specifically take any of the barrel/hop assembly apart. Anyone with a G36 might know what I'm referring to.

- I don't know the status of the Hop-up. The gun is maybe 3rd or 4th hand, and although it's in great shape, I wasn't given a list of upgrades.
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I'm glad to hear timing is a myth. I was pretty certain, but it never hurts to ask

I feel like i've oiled the hop-up recently, but I'm going to fire some oil up there just to make sure.

I'm hoping the speed of the 9.6 isn't warping the tappet plate or something weird like that.

I'll keep looking. If there's more suggestions and you're willing to share, keep em' coming, I'm learning a bunch anyways. If I find a solution, I'll definitely post it up!

[Mysteryfish]

More info:

- Misfeeds with Hi-cap too

- seems to feed much better with an 8.4 volt, though it does miss shots still

- nozzle seems to be stopping too far forward. I don't know where its' supposed to be normally though, so I could be crazy

- when the mag-well is in, it appears that one of the rearmost sections of the hop-up assembly is actually partially blocking the "feed tube" (if that makes sense)

In otherwords, there isn't a clear path up to the barrel for the BBs...

The entire hop-up seems to be spring loaded and it moves forward if I push it, but doesn't stay..

....

WTF!?

[Mysteryfish]

Okay, so I fixed it.

The inner barrel / hop-up are on a spring loaded assembly which twist locks into the forward section of the gun.

This section pushes backwards and stops, resting against the front face of the mechbox.

It was too far back, and a flat piece of the hop-up assembly was actually partially blocking the path of the BB's into the gun.

My solution: built up an aluminum tape 'pad' on the face of the mechbox to shim the inner barrel and hop-up assembly forward so they were not interrupting the path of the BB's

What I can't understand is why the hell it's in the way in the first place?

I have a feeling I've got an aftermarket mag-well on this gun, but I'm really not sure.

It's either that or I'm missing a component that holds the hop-up further forwards.

*addendum: I'm apparently not missing any components, as I looked carefully at a few exploded diagrams, which revealed no mystery-part.

does anyone have any idea why my inner barrel and hop-up would be sitting too far back?

[The Saint]

I'm a little confused by your "solution". The hopup chamber *is* supposed to rest against the front of your mechbox, I don't know how it can be "too far back" since the mechbox would be where/what it'd stop against. It's spring-loaded in order to do this.

And the "flat piece of the hop-up assembly" you refer to... You mean the little spring loaded clip at the top of the inner circumference of the hopup chamber? As in, the narrow plastic thing that the nozzle has to travel past to mate with the hopup bucking? Again, that's part of the design. I believe it holds the BBs in place until the nozzle rams them into the hopup bucking.

G36 hopup guide: http://photos.returners.org/gallery/G36HopUpUnit

[Mysteryfish]

negatory, good buddy. I know what you're referring to, but that's not what I mean.

I mean, while the hop-up assembly is resting properly against the front of the mechbox, if I look through the mag well, into where the BB's would be going, about 1/4 of the hole is actually physically blocked by part of the hop-up assembly.

In the fourth picture in that link you posted there, you can see his thumb resting where the mechbox would be.

In front of his thumb, you can see the opening to the barrel, and the surrounding plastic. While the gun is assembled, it's as though that opening is too far back, and is actually directly in line with the feed nozzle, instead of right at the front edge of it.

Because of this, that section between the hop-up wheel and the opening to the barrel blocks the feed nozzle pathway while the gun is assembled.

If this doesn't make any sense, I'll try to snap a few photos and maybe put some highlights on the images here, since it's pretty hard to explain, but it'd be easier to show visually.

[CDN_Stalker]

Looks like I'm the weiner for this quiz! Lol

[Mysteryfish]

sort-of -

but oiling it didn't solve the issue, because for some reason, the gun isn't assembling properly.

...unless someone else with a G36 can confirm that when they look into the 'loading tube', it's partially blocked right at the point where it opens into the gun (on the inside)

(to clarify: loading tube is the tube that mates directly with the magazine, through which the BB's move into the gun)

[CDN_Stalker]

Originally Posted by Mysteryfish

sort-of -

but oiling it didn't solve the issue, because for some reason, the gun isn't assembling properly.

...unless someone else with a G36 can confirm that when they look into the 'loading tube', it's partially blocked right at the point where it opens into the gun (on the inside)

(to clarify: loading tube is the tube that mates directly with the magazine, through which the BB's move into the gun)

Well, meaning that I brought up the hop up unit not being reassembled correctly.

[Mysteryfish]

oh...

in that case: Werd!

[CDN_Stalker]

Congrats to your having a working gun again!

[Mysteryfish]

New info on this case!

So I've discovered the actual culprit (I'm about 90% sure on this one)

After comparing my gun with another TM G36C owner's gun, I've discovered that the mag well on my gun is a different colour and appears to be of a different material altogether.

So, in short, I have a different companies' mag-well on my gun!

Not such a big deal, except that the dimensions are off JUST ENOUGH that when the magazine well is installed on the gun, it doesn't line up with the hop-up/barrel properly, resulting in a partially blocked feed-path (and subsequently, misfeeds!)

So, I'll need to get ahold of a proper TM mag-well ASAP.