ICS G33 with downgraded spring firing twice on semi

WinnipegDragon · January 22nd, 2015, 02:28

So I think I have the same issue as this: http://airsoftcanada.com/showthread....uble+fire+semi

I cracked open my mechbox and pulled the M120 spring and replaced it with an SHS M90 so I can run this in an indoor field with a 350fps limit. I also popped in a 7.4v LiPo which is brand new and fully charged.

In Semi, it fires at least twice and after releasing the trigger I can still hear the motor/gears winding down a bit. Every five or ten pulls, the trigger will lock up like the safety is on. Full auto runs fine.

Is this just the over-cycling issue or does the trigger locking indicate another issue? I may have been a bit overzealous cracking open my mechbox on a brand new gun with no experience...

pestobanana · January 22nd, 2015, 02:45

The trigger lock indicates a semi auto seizure, overspin is causing it to stop at random sector positions, because of different amounts of built up inertia when power cutoff happens.

Your issue should be easily resolvable by prying the trigger contacts a little bit further apart, it will adjust your power cutoff to be faster.

WinnipegDragon · January 22nd, 2015, 08:50

Okay, thanks for the tip. I'll crack it back open tonight and take a look at the trigger.

Is it possible this is just a sector gear misalignment also?

ThunderCactus · January 22nd, 2015, 09:32

Sector gears cant be aligned.
If you still have a lot of overspin after adjusting the contacts, you'll need a motor with stronger magnets to increase the braking force. You've just got too much momentum built up with a weak spring.

WinnipegDragon · January 22nd, 2015, 10:01

Okay, just checking out my other options. It ships with a high torque motor, so maybe swapping to a high speed one makes sense if this is going to be a CQB rifle?

Apologies for all the questions!

lurkingknight · January 22nd, 2015, 10:06

are you feathering the trigger? Pull the trigger and keep it pulled until the gun finishes the cycle before releasing to pull again. Release the trigger all the way.

If you feather... half pulling or pulling before it's finished a cycle you can make the issue worse. On slower setups is possible to pull the trigger faster than the gun can shoot.

WinnipegDragon · January 22nd, 2015, 10:08

I'm pretty sure I'm not but I'll test fire it again tonight and see.

If push comes to shove and the trigger contacts don't fix anything I'm wondering if I should just keep it in full auto and not worry about it too much.

lurkingknight · January 22nd, 2015, 10:11

well if your local field has a requirement for semi only, keep it in semi until it locks, then flip to full auto to unlock it. semi auto lock does happen every so often, even on well built guns.

WinnipegDragon · January 22nd, 2015, 10:12

Nope, no limit on semi, just FPS.

Maybe I'll just live with it, I'm really happy with the gun itself otherwise.

WinnipegDragon · January 22nd, 2015, 10:48

Just looked before heading off to work, reviewed a few more assembly videos, and it looks like I lost the spring on the anti-reversal latch. Crap.

ThunderCactus · January 22nd, 2015, 12:45

Losing the spring on the av latch will just make your gun unwind between shots. It wont cause semi auto seizure or double shooting.

There are more feautures to a motor than simply high torque or high speed.
You can have a high speed motor with high torque and strong magnets, and you can have a low speed motor with high torque and weak magnets, and you can have a high speed motor with low torque and weak magnets.
The magnets affect both torque and stopping power. Stronger magnets will slow the gear train faster.

WinnipegDragon · January 22nd, 2015, 13:02

Okay I'm learning as I go here so thank you all for the input.

WinnipegDragon · January 22nd, 2015, 23:19

Well I changed out the entire anti-reversal lever with a unit from Modify since I couldn't order just the spring. I decided against fiddling with the trigger contacts as that seemed a little too involved for me right now.

Put it all back together, and tried to see how semi was working, and now it works flawlessly. About 100 trigger pulls, no double shots, no seizing. No idea but it's firing just fine on the M90 spring now, and actually seems more accurate that before.

Beginners luck, or I didn't have everything seated properly last time.

lurkingknight · January 23rd, 2015, 00:17

probably something came back into place a little differently. A shim got left out or put in some different spot... hard to say if you're pretty new at assembling gearboxes and not keeping track of everything cause you don't know which parts to keep an eye on. :P If it works then don't fuck with it at this point.

WinnipegDragon · January 23rd, 2015, 00:18

Exactly. Not going to play with it unless/until something breaks but I'll be better prepared next time!

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January 22nd, 2015, 02:28	#1
WinnipegDragon Trader rating Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Winnipeg	ICS G33 with downgraded spring firing twice on semi So I think I have the same issue as this: http://airsoftcanada.com/showthread....uble+fire+semi I cracked open my mechbox and pulled the M120 spring and replaced it with an SHS M90 so I can run this in an indoor field with a 350fps limit. I also popped in a 7.4v LiPo which is brand new and fully charged. In Semi, it fires at least twice and after releasing the trigger I can still hear the motor/gears winding down a bit. Every five or ten pulls, the trigger will lock up like the safety is on. Full auto runs fine. Is this just the over-cycling issue or does the trigger locking indicate another issue? I may have been a bit overzealous cracking open my mechbox on a brand new gun with no experience...

January 22nd, 2015, 08:50	#3
WinnipegDragon Trader rating Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Winnipeg	Okay, thanks for the tip. I'll crack it back open tonight and take a look at the trigger. Is it possible this is just a sector gear misalignment also? Last edited by WinnipegDragon; January 22nd, 2015 at 08:57..

January 22nd, 2015, 10:06	#6
lurkingknight "bb bukakke" KING! Trader rating Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Ottawa	are you feathering the trigger? Pull the trigger and keep it pulled until the gun finishes the cycle before releasing to pull again. Release the trigger all the way. If you feather... half pulling or pulling before it's finished a cycle you can make the issue worse. On slower setups is possible to pull the trigger faster than the gun can shoot. __________________ I futz with V2s, V3s and V6s. I could be wrong... but probably, most likely not, as far as I know.

January 22nd, 2015, 02:45	#2
pestobanana Squid Porn Superstar, I love the tentacles! Trader rating Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Richmond Hill and Waterloo, Ontario	The trigger lock indicates a semi auto seizure, overspin is causing it to stop at random sector positions, because of different amounts of built up inertia when power cutoff happens. Your issue should be easily resolvable by prying the trigger contacts a little bit further apart, it will adjust your power cutoff to be faster.

January 22nd, 2015, 09:32	#4
ThunderCactus Not Eye Safe, Pretty Boy Maximus on the field take his picture! Trader rating Join Date: Feb 2007	Sector gears cant be aligned. If you still have a lot of overspin after adjusting the contacts, you'll need a motor with stronger magnets to increase the braking force. You've just got too much momentum built up with a weak spring.

January 22nd, 2015, 10:01	#5
WinnipegDragon Trader rating Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Winnipeg	Okay, just checking out my other options. It ships with a high torque motor, so maybe swapping to a high speed one makes sense if this is going to be a CQB rifle? Apologies for all the questions!

January 22nd, 2015, 10:08	#7
WinnipegDragon Trader rating Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Winnipeg	I'm pretty sure I'm not but I'll test fire it again tonight and see. If push comes to shove and the trigger contacts don't fix anything I'm wondering if I should just keep it in full auto and not worry about it too much.

January 22nd, 2015, 10:11	#8
lurkingknight "bb bukakke" KING! Trader rating Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Ottawa	well if your local field has a requirement for semi only, keep it in semi until it locks, then flip to full auto to unlock it. semi auto lock does happen every so often, even on well built guns. __________________ I futz with V2s, V3s and V6s. I could be wrong... but probably, most likely not, as far as I know.

January 22nd, 2015, 10:12	#9
WinnipegDragon Trader rating Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Winnipeg	Nope, no limit on semi, just FPS. Maybe I'll just live with it, I'm really happy with the gun itself otherwise.

January 22nd, 2015, 10:48	#10
WinnipegDragon Trader rating Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Winnipeg	Just looked before heading off to work, reviewed a few more assembly videos, and it looks like I lost the spring on the anti-reversal latch. Crap.

January 22nd, 2015, 12:45	#11
ThunderCactus Not Eye Safe, Pretty Boy Maximus on the field take his picture! Trader rating Join Date: Feb 2007	Losing the spring on the av latch will just make your gun unwind between shots. It wont cause semi auto seizure or double shooting. There are more feautures to a motor than simply high torque or high speed. You can have a high speed motor with high torque and strong magnets, and you can have a low speed motor with high torque and weak magnets, and you can have a high speed motor with low torque and weak magnets. The magnets affect both torque and stopping power. Stronger magnets will slow the gear train faster.

January 22nd, 2015, 13:02	#12
WinnipegDragon Trader rating Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Winnipeg	Okay I'm learning as I go here so thank you all for the input.

January 22nd, 2015, 23:19	#13
WinnipegDragon Trader rating Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Winnipeg	Well I changed out the entire anti-reversal lever with a unit from Modify since I couldn't order just the spring. I decided against fiddling with the trigger contacts as that seemed a little too involved for me right now. Put it all back together, and tried to see how semi was working, and now it works flawlessly. About 100 trigger pulls, no double shots, no seizing. No idea but it's firing just fine on the M90 spring now, and actually seems more accurate that before. Beginners luck, or I didn't have everything seated properly last time.

January 23rd, 2015, 00:17	#14
lurkingknight "bb bukakke" KING! Trader rating Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Ottawa	probably something came back into place a little differently. A shim got left out or put in some different spot... hard to say if you're pretty new at assembling gearboxes and not keeping track of everything cause you don't know which parts to keep an eye on. :P If it works then don't fuck with it at this point. __________________ I futz with V2s, V3s and V6s. I could be wrong... but probably, most likely not, as far as I know.

January 23rd, 2015, 00:18	#15
WinnipegDragon Trader rating Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Winnipeg	Exactly. Not going to play with it unless/until something breaks but I'll be better prepared next time!

ICS G33 with downgraded spring firing twice on semi

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