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Kedirkin December 5th, 2003 21:43

Questions and Answers: The Current Status of Airsoft Guns in Canada

Q: Is airsoft legal in Canada?

A: Yes. However, there is ongoing concern over the status of airsoft guns in Canada with specific reference to airsoft guns and broad statements by some agencies of the Federal Government that airsoft guns are replica firearms.

Q: Why does it say that airsoft guns are replica firearms under the current Firearms Act on the Canadian Firearms Centre website?

A: The website reference in question does not accurately reflect the existing Firearms Act and its related regulations.

The website statement also contradicts spoken and written statements by the Canadian Firearms Centre (CFC) that airsoft guns are not replica firearms; other spoken and written statements by the CFC reflect the exact opposite position.

The CFC has indicated that current policies regarding the classification and treatment of airsoft guns are not achieving the desired effect, and clarification is being sought on the status of airsoft guns.

The direction of this clarification is not yet known. That decision will be made by the Minister of Justice based on advice from the Commissioner of Firearms, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP) and the Policy Consultation Directorate for the CFC. The effect of such a clarification will also extend to other agencies of various governments, such as the Canada Customs and Revenue Agency (CCRA) and the provincial governments of Canada.

There has been no change in legislation or regulations with respect to firearms, airsoft or otherwise, since Royal Assent of Bill C-10(A), which contained amendments to the current Firearms Act prescribing joule limits on the definition of a firearm in addition to existing velocity limits originally set out in the Firearms Act.

Under the current Firearms Act, a replica firearm is defined as:

“(Criminal code sec. 84 (1)) "replica firearm" means any device that is designed or intended to exactly resemble, or to resemble with near precision, a firearm, and that itself is not a firearm, but does not include any such device that is designed or intended to exactly resemble, or to resemble with near precision, an antique firearm;”

However, airsoft guns are fire projectiles capable of breaking the skin and causing significant injury to an unprotected eye, which would result in permanent blindness.

The inability to cause bodily harm is an additional pre-requisite for the categorization of a replica firearm, as stated in regulations.

The CFC has now given policy direction in the form of a Fact Sheet issued February 10, 2004, that they consider the penetration of skin or an eye as a serious bodily injury.

The significance of this new policy direction is clarified within the Criminal Code of Canada Sec. 2, where a firearm is defined as:

“a barreled weapon from which any shot, bullet or other projectile can be discharged and that is capable of causing serious bodily injury or death to a person, and includes any frame or receiver of such a barreled weapon and anything that can be adapted for use as a firearm;”

According to this definition, an airsoft gun is now a firearm, as it fires a projectile.

However, the confusion does not end there. Subsection 84(3 d) of the Criminal Code of Canada states:

“(3) For the purposes of sections 91 to 95, 99 to 101, 103 to 107 and 117.03 of this Act and the provisions of the Firearms Act, the following weapons are deemed not to be firearms:

(d) any other barreled weapon, where it is proved that the weapon is not designed or adapted to discharge

(i) a shot, bullet or other projectile at a muzzle velocity exceeding 152.4 m per second, or

(ii) a shot, bullet or other projectile that is designed or adapted to attain a velocity exceeding 152.4 m per second.”

This subsection applies to airsoft guns, as their velocities are below the prescribed maximum threshold for velocity and the prescribed maximum threshold for energy, the latter laid out in amendments to the Firearms Act contained in Bill C-10(A).

In practice, the application of that limit is open to significant interpretation by law enforcement officers, CCRA officers, RCMP technicians and CFC officials.

As a result, there continues to be no specific definition for airsoft guns under existing legislation and regulation.

Further clarification on these points is reflected in the options paper prepared by the Airsoft Initiative entitled, “Airsoft in Canada: Partnership Through Accountability.”

Q: Have things changed?

A: Yes, but not from a legal standpoint. With the support of members within the Canadian Airsoft Community, we have received replies in response to our letter of contact to the CFC sent July 24, 2003, and our options paper entitled “Airsoft in Canada: Partnership Through Accountability” sent to the Commissioner of Firearms on September 25, 2003.

In these replies, the Commissioner of Firearms has indicated that a further policy decision on the status of airsoft guns in Canada will be addressed by the Criminal Law Policy and Community Justice Branch at the Department of Justice.

A fact sheet from the CFC issued February 10, 2004, has confirmed that the CFC considers the penetration of skin or an eye as a serious bodily injury. This new policy from the CFC's fact sheet would seem to reflect the options paper we submitted to the Commissioner of Firearms on September 25, 2003, particularly our contention that many airsoft guns are capable of causing significant bodily harm, and they are not designated as replica firearms under existing legislation.

Q: What is the current status of airsoft guns with respect to legislation?

A: There has been no change in legislation or regulations with respect to firearms, airsoft or otherwise, since Royal Assent of Bill C-10(A), which contained amendments to the current Firearms Act prescribing joule limits on the definition of a firearm in addition to existing velocity limits originally set out in the Firearms Act.

Q: What is the current status of airsoft guns with respect to policy?

A: The CFC has indicated that current policies regarding the classification and treatment of airsoft guns are not achieving the desired effect, and clarification is being sought on the status of airsoft guns.

The direction of this clarification is not yet known. That decision will be made by the Minister of Justice based on advice from the Commissioner of Firearms, the RCMP and the Policy Consultation Directorate for the CFC. The effect of such a clarification will also extend to other agencies of various governments, such as the CCRA and the provincial governments of Canada.

The Northwest Region of the CFC is the regional office tasked with the analysis and policy work that will be carried forward to the Commissioner of Firearms, and by extension, the Minister of Justice and the Solicitor General. The Commissioner of Firearms has also requested that the Criminal Law Policy and Community Justice Branch at the Department of Justice give consideration to the matter.

Q: What is the difference between policy and legislation?

A: Legislation refers to an act of parliament passed into law. These acts, such as the Canadian Firearms Act, have force in law. Legislation in Canada can lay out definitions, restrictions and penalties under the law, most often the Criminal Code of Canada. Furthermore, legislation can prescribe abilities for a Minister of the Federal Government to create regulations and orders in council, which also have force in law.

A regulation is a delegated or subordinate legal instrument made by the authority of legislation passed by the Legislature and controlled by a Minister responsible for the overall area. Like acts, regulations are legal instruments that have force in law.

An order in council is an instrument used to exercise power that the Legislative Assembly has delegated to Cabinet, most often a single Minister. The delegation of power occurs through legislation so that decisions may be made without returning to the Legislature.

A policy is an interpretation of an existing legal instrument, (e.g. an act, regulation or order in council), usually made by a division of the public service. Policies may or may not have direction from the Minister responsible for the area. Policies do not have legal force in law, although they may help to guide decisions based on existing legislation.

Q: What is the current status of airsoft guns with respect to the Canada Customs and Revenue Agency?

A: An internal policy document for the CCRA, commonly referred to as a D-memo, identifies airsoft guns as replica firearms under the current Firearms Act.

Based on that policy, the CCRA has stated that it is illegal for unlicensed individuals to import airsoft guns. The CCRA regularly seizes such imports as set out under existing operational policies and practices.

However, the internal D-memo used by the CCRA is based on an interpretation of legislation. The policy document is not law in and of itself, nor has the ruling of the CCRA been tested in a court of law.

The Canadian Airsoft Community has identified serious concerns in the data used to draft standards for modern airguns, with particular sections using data collected over 100 years ago during the American Civil War. The Canadian Airsoft Community does not feel that such data accurately reflects the battery-driven gearboxes and compressed air springs used in most airsoft guns.

The Canadian Airsoft Community has also collected documentation from the RCMP on the absence of testing done with airsoft guns. The Canadian Airsoft community is not satisfied that conclusions drawn from existing data accurately reflects the technical capabilities of modern airsoft guns, nor does it address the scope of airsoft guns currently available.

Q: What is the Airsoft Initiative?

A: The Airsoft Initiative is an informal umbrella term used to apply to those individuals that drafted an options paper with the intent of seeking stakeholder consultation status with the Federal Government, specifically the Department of the Solicitor General and the CFC and the Department of Justice and Criminal Law Policy and Community Justice Branch, on the subject of airsoft guns in Canada.

Q: What is the current status of the Airsoft Initiative?

A: The Airsoft Initiative is preparing a response to the Commissioner of Firearms at the CFC and the Director of the Criminal Law Policy and Community Justice Branch at the Department of Justice.

The Airsoft Initiative is also awaiting a response from the Northwest Region office of the CFC, on the submission of an options paper entitled “Airsoft in Canada: Partnership Through Accountability.”

Q: What is the current status of the options paper, “Airsoft in Canada: Partnership Through Accountability”?

A: The options paper was completed with input from airsoft players and retailers from across Canada and submitted to the Commissioner of Firearms and the Chief Firearms Officer for Northwest Region shortly before the policy consultation deadline of September 30, 2003, set by the CFC to solicit public feedback on general comments and proposed regulations concerning the current and its related regulations.

A reply to the options paper was received by the Airsoft Initiative on November 10, 2003.

The Federal Government has indicated that the our options paper was successfully considered in the policy consultation process for the Firearms Act, and the options paper has also been considered and forwarded to various agencies and departments within the Federal Government, specifically the Criminal Law Policy and Community Justice Branch at the Department of Justice. A copy was also sent to CCRA.

Q: How is the Canadian Firearms Centre connected to the Department of the Solicitor General?

A: The CFC and RCMP are divisions of the Department of the Solicitor General, currently led by the Honourable Wayne Easter.

Q: Why is the Airsoft Initiative not in contact with the Canada Customs and Revenue Agency?

A: The CCRA, RCMP and various law enforcement agencies take their policy direction on airsoft guns from the CFC, led by Mr. William Baker, the Commissioner of Firearms, and the Department of the Solicitor General, led by the Honourable Wayne Easter.

The Airsoft Initiative formed its recommendations with the intention of addressing the status of airsoft guns on a national level. As such, recommendations from the Canadian Airsoft Community addressed the highest levels of authority with proposed legislative amendments and policy mechanisms designed to accomplish our goals.

The goals and recommendations contained in the options paper, “Airsoft in Canada: Partnership Through Accountability” address legislative amendments and policy mechanisms that would need to be affected by the Department of Justice and Department of the Solicitor General, which in turn gives policy directions to other agencies of the Federal Government, including the CCRA, the CFC and the RCMP.

Q: If that is the case, why was the options paper submitted to the Mr. William Baker, the Commissioner of Firearms for the CFC, instead of the Honourable Wayne Easter, Solicitor General?

A: The goals and recommendations contained in the options paper, “Airsoft in Canada: Partnership Through Accountability” address legislative amendments and policy mechanisms that would need to be affected by the Department of the Solicitor General, which in turn gives policy directions to other agencies of the Federal Government, including the CCRA, the CFC and the RCMP.

However, the CFC is a division of the Department of the Solicitor General, and the responsibility of firearms in Canada falls under the mandate of that division. Decisions made by the Commissioner of Firearms must eventually pass through the Solicitor General, but it is the Commissioner of Firearms who will carry those recommendations forward. As such, the options paper was written for the audience responsible for reading it.

Q: Why is the Airsoft Initiative not in contact with provincial governments?

A: Airsoft guns in Canada are addressed by the Criminal Code of Canada, the current Firearms Act and its related regulations. The Airsoft Initiative formed its recommendations with the intention of addressing the status of airsoft guns on a national level. As such, recommendations from the Canadian Airsoft Community addressed the highest levels of authority with proposed legislative amendments and policy mechanisms designed to accomplish our goals.

The powers to address airsoft guns are not within the mandate of provincial governments.

Q: What about provincial Chief Firearms Officers?

A: The powers of a provincial Chief Firearms Officer are granted by the current Firearms Act, which falls under the jurisdiction of the Federal Government.

The powers to address airsoft guns are not within the mandate of provincial governments.

Q: What about the Ontario Imitation Firearms Regulation Act?

A: The Ontario Imitation Firearms Regulation Act, which became law during the fall session of 2000, is an act that compliments existing clauses within the current Firearms Act. However, provincial legislation is subordinate to federal legislation.

It is not entirely clear, either through legal definition, legislation, regulation or practice, that airsoft guns are governed by the Ontario Imitation Firearms Regulation Act.

The powers to address airsoft guns are not within the mandate of provincial governments.

Q: What about those provinces that have signalled their intent to opt out of the current Firearms Act?

A: The current Firearms Act affects all provinces and territories in Canada. As of August 2003, eight out of the ten Canadian provinces had signalled their intent to opt out of enforcement of the federal Firearms Registry, which is one component of the current Firearms Act.

A position on the enforcement of the Firearms Act as a whole from various provincial governments remains unclear. However, the Firearms Act continues to have effect in Canada, regardless of a particular provincial government’s position on the act.

The decision to opt out of enforcement of the federal Firearms Registry is a political decision, not a legislative decision. As such, the position of a particular provincial government and its relation to the current Firearms Act is dependent on the current government for a particular province.

The reliance on a provincial government’s political position for interpretation of existing federal legislation is not recommended. Even so far as the federal Firearms Registry is concerned, the position is tenuous at best.

The powers to address airsoft guns are not within the mandate of provincial governments.

Q: What makes a firearm under Canadian law?

A: To be classified as a firearm under Canadian law, specifically the Firearms Act, an airgun must fire in excess of 500 feet per second (152.4 metres per second) AND have a muzzle energy in excess of 5.7 joules.

Q: Do airsoft guns in Canada need to have orange tips? Do orange tips affect the status of airsoft guns in Canada?

A: No. The "orange tip" requirement is a US-based law.

Q: Can I pose additional questions to you or the Airsoft Initiative?

A: Yes. We will answer questions to the best of our ability.

__________________________________________________ _____________________

Update, February 14, 2004

Here is a new fact sheet for airguns from the CFC. In particular, note the new text:

Quote:

Neither are devices (considered to be replica firearms if) designed to discharge projectiles with enough force to penetrate skin or an eye.
As a result, the answers to two questions listed above have changed: "Why does it say that airsoft guns are replica firearms under the current Firearms Act on the Canadian Firearms Centre website?" and "Have things changed?"

For those who are who are too lazy to scroll back up and see what that says, the new fact sheet now seems to reflect the options paper we submitted to the Commissioner of Firearms on September 25, 2003, particularly our contention that many airsoft guns are capable of causing significant bodily harm, and they are not designated as replica firearms under existing legislation.

It is important to note that the existing legislation and regulations have not been changed: a fact sheet is a reflection of policy and has no force in law. This lack of legal change means that, for the Canadian Airsoft Community, not a lot of things have changed. I seriously doubt this change means we can start importing AEGs. However, we have made some progress--none of the people involved with this initiative have seen this type of language on eyes, skin and bodily harm used by the CFC before.

If anything has changed, some accessories might be easier to bring across now.

In the end, we believe that the mountain has now been moved. Not far mind you, but it has been moved nonetheless.

Kokanee April 15th, 2006 12:39

thread cleaned

RecceGod April 19th, 2006 14:31

replica firearm” « réplique » “replica firearm” means any device that is designed or intended to exactly resemble, or to resemble with near precision, a firearm, and that itself is not a firearm, but does not include any such device that is designed or intended to exactly resemble, or to resemble with near precision, an antique firearm;
Certain weapons deemed not to be firearms (3) For the purposes of sections 91 to 95, 99 to 101, 103 to 107 and 117.03 of this Act and the provisions of the Firearms Act, the following weapons are deemed not to be firearms:(a) any antique firearm;(b) any device that is(i) designed exclusively for signalling, for notifying of distress, for firing blank cartridges or for firing stud cartridges, explosive-driven rivets or other industrial projectiles, and(ii) intended by the person in possession of it to be used exclusively for the purpose for which it is designed;(c) any shooting device that is(i) designed exclusively for the slaughtering of domestic animals, the tranquillizing of animals or the discharging of projectiles with lines attached to them, and(ii) intended by the person in possession of it to be used exclusively for the purpose for which it is designed; and( d) any other barrelled weapon, where it is proved that the weapon is not designed or adapted to discharge(i) a shot, bullet or other projectile at a muzzle velocity exceeding 152.4 m per second or at a muzzle energy exceeding 5.7 Joules, or(ii) a shot, bullet or other projectile that is designed or adapted to attain a velocity exceeding 152.4 m per second or an energy exceeding 5.7 Joules.

prohibited device” « dispositif prohibé » “prohibited device” means ( a) any component or part of a weapon, or any accessory for use with a weapon, that is prescribed to be a prohibited device,( b) a handgun barrel that is equal to or less than 105 mm in length, but does not include any such handgun barrel that is prescribed, where the handgun barrel is for use in international sporting competitions governed by the rules of the International Shooting Union,( c) a device or contrivance designed or intended to muffle or stop the sound or report of a firearm,( d) a cartridge magazine that is prescribed to be a prohibited device, or( e) a replica firearm;

“imitation firearm” « fausse arme * feu » “imitation firearm” means any thing that imitates a firearm, and includes a replica firearm;


TRANSPORTATION OF REPLICA FIREARMS
13. An individual may transport a replica firearm only if
(a) when the vehicle in which it is being transported is equipped with a trunk or similar compartment that can be securely locked, the replica firearm is in that trunk or compartment and the trunk or compartment is securely locked; and
(b) when the vehicle in which it is being transported is not equipped with a trunk or similar compartment that can be securely locked, the replica firearm is not visible from outside the vehicle and the vehicle, or the part of the vehicle that contains the replica firearm, is securely locked


Using imitation firearm in commission of offence (2) Every person commits an offence who uses an imitation firearm(a) while committing an indictable offence,(b) while attempting to commit an indictable offence, or(c) during flight after committing or attempting to commit an indictable offence,whether or not the person causes or means to cause bodily harm to any person as a result of using the imitation firearm.
Punishment (3) Every person who commits an offence under subsection (1) or (2) is guilty of an indictable offence and liable(a) in the case of a first offence, except as provided in paragraph (b), to imprisonment for a term not exceeding fourteen years and to a minimum punishment of imprisonment for a term of one year;(b) in the case of a first offence committed by a person who, before January 1, 1978, was convicted of an indictable offence, or an attempt to commit an indictable offence, in the course of which or during flight after the commission or attempted commission of which the person used a firearm, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding fourteen years and to a minimum punishment of imprisonment for a term of three years; and(c) in the case of a second or subsequent offence, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding fourteen years and to a minimum punishment of imprisonment for a term of three years.
Sentences to be served consecutively (4) A sentence imposed on a person for an offence under subsection (1) or (2) shall be served consecutively to any other punishment imposed on the person for an offence arising out of the same event or series of events and to any other sentence to which the person is subject at the time the sentence is imposed on the person for an offence under subsection (1) or (2).



Possession of prohibited weapon, device or ammunition knowing its possession is unauthorized (2) Subject to subsection (4) and section 98, every person commits an offence who possesses a prohibited weapon, a restricted weapon, a prohibited device, other than a replica firearm, or any prohibited ammunition knowing that the person is not the holder of a licence under which the person may possess it.
Punishment (3) Every person who commits an offence under subsection (1) or (2) is guilty of an indictable offence and liable(a) in the case of a first offence, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding ten years;(b) in the case of a second offence, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding ten years and to a minimum punishment of imprisonment for a term of one year; and(c) in the case of a third or subsequent offence, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding ten years and to a minimum punishment of imprisonment for a term of two years less a day.
Exceptions (4) Subsections (1) and (2) do not apply to(a) a person who possesses a firearm, a prohibited weapon, a restricted weapon, a prohibited device or any prohibited ammunition while the person is under the direct and immediate supervision of a person who may lawfully possess it, for the purpose of using it in a manner in which the supervising person may lawfully use it; or(b) a person who comes into possession of a firearm, a prohibited weapon, a restricted weapon, a prohibited device or any prohibited ammunition by the operation of law and who, within a reasonable period after acquiring possession of it,(i) lawfully disposes of it, or(ii) obtains a licence under which the person may possess it and, in the case of a firearm, a registration certificate for the firearm.



Guidelines to follow since nothing exists regarding the storage of replica firearms:

STORAGE OF PROHIBITED FIREARMS
7. An individual may store a prohibited firearm only if
(a) it is unloaded;
(b) it is
(i) rendered inoperable by means of a secure locking device and stored in a container, receptacle or room that is kept securely locked and that is constructed so that it cannot readily be broken open or into, and, if the prohibited firearm is an automatic firearm that has a removable bolt or bolt-carrier, the bolt or bolt-carrier is removed and stored in a room that is different from the room in which the automatic firearm is stored, that is kept securely locked and that is constructed so that it cannot readily be broken open or into, or
(ii) stored in a vault, safe or room that has been specifically constructed or modified for the secure storage of prohibited firearms and that is kept securely locked; and
(c) it is not readily accessible to ammunition, unless the ammunition is stored, together with or separately from the firearm, in
(i) a container or receptacle that is kept securely locked and that is constructed so that it cannot readily be broken open or into, or
(ii) a vault, safe or room that has been specifically constructed or modified for the secure storage of prohibited firearms and that is kept securely locked.
the vehicle.

RecceGod April 19th, 2006 14:39

FYI!!!

DO NOT PANIC WHEN YOU READ THIS.

Taken from the criminal code and weapons act.

These are the facts regarding airsoft rifles. However like stated in the first post you will not get into trouble... READ THE Q&A FIRST.

replica firearm” « réplique » “replica firearm” means

any device that is designed or intended to exactly resemble, or to resemble with near precision, a firearm, and that itself is not a firearm, but does not include any such device that is designed or intended to exactly resemble, or to resemble with near precision, an antique firearm;

Certain weapons deemed not to be firearms

(3) For the purposes of sections 91 to 95, 99 to 101, 103 to 107 and 117.03 of this Act and the provisions of the Firearms Act, the following weapons are deemed not to be firearms:

(a) any antique firearm;

(b) any device that is(i) designed exclusively for signalling, for notifying of distress, for firing blank cartridges or for firing stud cartridges, explosive-driven rivets or other industrial projectiles, and(ii) intended by the person in possession of it to be used exclusively for the purpose for which it is designed;

(c) any shooting device that is(i) designed exclusively for the slaughtering of domestic animals, the tranquillizing of animals or the discharging of projectiles with lines attached to them, and(ii) intended by the person in possession of it to be used exclusively for the purpose for which it is designed; and

(d) any other barrelled weapon, where it is proved that the weapon is not designed or adapted to discharge(i) a shot, bullet or other projectile at a muzzle velocity exceeding 152.4 m per second or at a muzzle energy exceeding 5.7 Joules, or(ii) a shot, bullet or other projectile that is designed or adapted to attain a velocity exceeding 152.4 m per second or an energy exceeding 5.7 Joules.

prohibited device” « dispositif prohibé » “prohibited device” means

( a) any component or part of a weapon, or any accessory for use with a weapon, that is prescribed to be a prohibited device,

( b) a handgun barrel that is equal to or less than 105 mm in length, but does not include any such handgun barrel that is prescribed, where the handgun barrel is for use in international sporting competitions governed by the rules of the International Shooting Union,

( c) a device or contrivance designed or intended to muffle or stop the sound or report of a firearm,

( d) a cartridge magazine that is prescribed to be a prohibited device, or

(e) a replica firearm;

imitation firearm” « fausse arme * feu » “imitation firearm” means

any thing that imitates a firearm, and includes a replica firearm.


TRANSPORTATION OF REPLICA FIREARMS

13. An individual may transport a replica firearm only if

(a) when the vehicle in which it is being transported is equipped with a trunk or similar compartment that can be securely locked, the replica firearm is in that trunk or compartment and the trunk or compartment is securely locked; and

(b) when the vehicle in which it is being transported is not equipped with a trunk or similar compartment that can be securely locked, the replica firearm is not visible from outside the vehicle and the vehicle, or the part of the vehicle that contains the replica firearm, is securely locked.


Taken from the Criminal code. Also in the criminal code:

http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/srch.cg...d=203284&exp=7

-Using imitation firearm in commission of offence
-Possession of prohibited weapon, device or ammunition knowing its possession is unauthorized (for those who might wonder of the consequences of such act)


Also note that there is nothing regarding the storage of Replica Firearms, or prohibited devices, and thus you should follow the normal guidelines set for real-steel weapons.

quikstrike April 19th, 2006 17:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by RSM RecceGod
TRANSPORTATION OF REPLICA FIREARMS

13. An individual may transport a replica firearm only if

(a) when the vehicle in which it is being transported is equipped with a trunk or similar compartment that can be securely locked, the replica firearm is in that trunk or compartment and the trunk or compartment is securely locked; and

(b) when the vehicle in which it is being transported is not equipped with a trunk or similar compartment that can be securely locked, the replica firearm is not visible from outside the vehicle and the vehicle, or the part of the vehicle that contains the replica firearm, is securely locked.

Feel free to clean this after this is answered.

Just want clearification.

So this (in bold, 13. (b) )Means that say your vehicle does not have a trunk or compartment that can be securley locked you can legally lay it on a seat and cover it with a blanket so it is completely not visible to anyone from the outside and on the inside of the vehicle, and have your doors locked... ? In laymens terms is that correct, and legal?

Also most cars DO have a trunk, say it will not fit (say its in a gun case), which then would not allow the trunk to be securely locked, does that mean you can then follow part (b) for proper transportation? (because in some cars the gun case will not fit in the trunk, but would in the back seat.)

Just a question I thought I may ask, I'd like to see someones answer on this.

(feel free to clean it when it is answered.)

ToRN April 19th, 2006 18:02

That's a bit iffy, qs. I would say that yes, section 13 (b) does apply in that case, but only if that gun case will absolutely not fit, and you have taken reasonable precautions, ie. make sure that the car is locked, case is out of view, etc.

Another reccomendation would be to get a guncase that /does/ fit in your trunk, as this is the best way to comply with the legislation.

what kind of car do you have that the case won't fit in the trunk, but will fit in the rear seat? Most cars that I have come into contact have a similar width in the trunk and the back seats, with, in most cases, the trunk being wider, because of the armrests, etc. on the doors in the back seat.

Lisa April 19th, 2006 18:54

Most SUV's and Pickups don't have a lockable compartment. Anyways, the best thing is have it in a lockable case in your vehical, it counts as being not visable from the outside.

quikstrike April 19th, 2006 22:54

Thats what I thought Lisa.

Oh and ToRn, I have a sunfire, I bought a new guncase, I'm not saying it doesn't fit, I was just poking at the thought of it, just wonder what they actual answer from some peoples perspective would be.

But in all honesty, if it is in a gun case in your car while transporting it it is out of the view of people, even toss a blanket on the case if its in your back seat. (Not like your going to leave it in your car, just transporting)

Because I know some cars may not fit due to wheel well size, subs, all that junk, etc, etc.

This would also apply if say the person pulls down a back seat to have it half in trunk to fit it into a small car...

I just wanted to see what the answer may be, not saying she don't fit in my trunk haha.


I just think that this should be clearified for people that try to stick thier gun in thier trunk and are like.. "oh noes, it doesn't fit!"
Just so they don't do something they think will be ok, then get in major trouble with a police officer if they get pulled over.

Well I'm out, have a good one.

Greylocks April 20th, 2006 06:40

The law is the same as for real guns; transport them in a locked container. If your vehicle has a suitable trunk, put the container in there.

If the container is in view due to lack of trunk space, you can cover it with a blanket or something. I would strongly suggest the back seat at least, or between the seats on the floor. Not next to you in the passenger seat.
You must be able to show that you took reasonable efforts for it to be in a locked container and out of immediate reach if you are stopped.
You can make this even less conspicuous by using a locked container that does not look like the usual 'gun' case. A tool case comes to mind.
You never, ever, just put a gun on your seat and cover it with a blanket.

Mods, feel free to delete this if it clashes with the thread.

MadMorbius July 27th, 2006 08:53

Apply the same rules as you would to the real firearm-equivalent and you'll be fine.

Fiya February 29th, 2008 00:43

I am disappointed that this will be my first post in ASC. At the moment I am actually slowly constructing a flame-post absorbing fort made of toilet paper, pillows and unicorn horns around me in anticipation for the answers I may recieve... *Sigh*

I don't mean to be... Presumtious, ignorant to the laws of Canada, or a information leech either. I have looked this up to within my abilities. I have not been able to come across a straight answer.

In addition I will be getting age verified as soon as possible. I may be able to get verified this weekend at a local event actually. That is my hope at least... If I should not be talking about this until I am age verified then I will accept that and discontinue this while my 'age is pending'. (I'll keep my magical-unicorn horn, pillow, and paper anti-flame embattlement. :D)


If age verification is not an issue in talking about this, I will continue.

A near-by 'sport' shop had a firearms license and used to be a big firearm supplier in my locale. He is wondering if he can import airsoft from outside Canada. From what I understand, with a business firearms licence you can import firearms. There also may be a provision for replica firearms which (Most) airsoft guns fall into. Now where I am looking for answers... Do all "Business Firearms Licenses" have the provision for replica firearms or does it have to be a factor when acquiring the license? Do they 'expire' or have to be renewed? How can a business owner 'check' his status with his license? (If it needs to be renewed or specifically have a section for replica firearms.)

This is for my information so I understand his position better and to know what to tell him. He is interested in importing airsoft, what should he/I know in order to import them legally? Is it possible for him? What information do I need to get from him in order to find out?

I realize I will most likely need to talk to him some more and learn more about what he knows about it. I am a fairly well trusted 'regular' or supporter of him. His business has undergone a slow transformation from a full blown 'hunting, fishing, taxidermy, etc. shop' to a extreme sport shop. I.E. Skateboarding, (Which is the focus in his shop now and what I am into most. Airsoft is something I would like to start though) snowboarding, wake boarding, BMXing etc. Now he wants to import airsoft if his license will allow it.


Keep the flames to Katrina hurricane or less level please. :) Hahahha... Hah... Ha...... *Gulp*

mcguyver February 29th, 2008 00:48

The only business that have a BFL fpr prohibited devices are those who supply theater or motion picture props. That is the offical, proscribed purpose. A BFL for "normal" firearms is a different license entirely, different application process and approval requirements. You can have both, it's technically possible, but there are likely very few if any that do.

Basically, a gun store has as much legal right to import replicas as John Q. Public.

Don't worry if your confused and don't fully understand the law. I don't either. If it was totally 100% black-and-white, there would be no need for threads like this.

BloodSport February 29th, 2008 00:50

http://www.airsoftcanada.com/showthread.php?t=51609

Fiya February 29th, 2008 01:03

Okay that helps, alot. I perhaps forgot to mention I remember him mentioning something about him having replica firearms... I specifically remember him commenting on how they were full version models, only without the internals to make it deadly. So he MAY have some kind of license to import replica firearms. I have to get back to you with this once I talk to him more tomorrow. If you could answer some of the other questions about it which would assume he had a replica firearm license... Before... The things pertaining to importing airsoft now. Would he need to renew it? Will it still apply?



After reading though the link (briefly) I think I found the loophole... I believe he has mentioned being a supplier of the RCMP/local police department. Something of that nature... I'm recalling him bringing up many things that he had come into possession of for awhile when the -Law Enforcement Branch- ordered something new... Not sure if he would/had access to the 'replica firearm' division of the license. This is a possibility. Would a dept. or RCMP division order from a local place like this? I would think there would be a 'larger' power importing and distributing to all dept/RCMP divisions.

mcguyver February 29th, 2008 01:07

The RCMP and the military cannot import replicas either. Funny, they can buy an attack helicopter, artillery, or real automatic weapons.

There were instances I recall years ago of police and DND officials being denied importation from the CBSA, because they lacked the proper licensing. Some older members of ASC might recall that thread.

BloodSport February 29th, 2008 01:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fiya (Post 656827)
Okay that helps, alot. I perhaps forgot to mention I remember him mentioning something about him having replica firearms... I specifically remember him commenting on how they were full version models, only without the internals to make it deadly. So he MAY have some kind of license to import replica firearms. I have to get back to you with this once I talk to him more tomorrow. If you could answer some of the other questions about it which would assume he had a replica firearm license... Before... The things pertaining to importing airsoft now. Would he need to renew it? Will it still apply?



After reading though the link (briefly) I think I found the loophole... I believe he has mentioned being a supplier of the RCMP/local police department. Something of that nature... I'm recalling him bringing up many things that he had come into possession of for awhile when the -Law Enforcement Branch- ordered something new... Not sure if he would/had access to the 'replica firearm' division of the license. This is a possibility. Would a dept. or RCMP division order from a local place like this? I would think there would be a 'larger' power importing and distributing to all dept/RCMP divisions.

Even if he does have the license to import them, he legally can not sell them. So it would be all his own risk if he chose to do so, which would put the rest of his business at risk.

Fiya February 29th, 2008 01:35

Okay I will tell him that, and actually we had a conversation about the responsibilities of it and how the sport seems to be in the grey area... One of the things we talked about was some of the people who... Should not have airsoft guns... It was said in other words. :p If he began 'selling', it would be inner circle/trusted people only. He is a bit of an authority figure in the 'inner cirlce' I believe if it would be okay if it was only sold with extreme prejudice. Hahha. Thats probably not the right word, but it sounds cool. ;)

I will tell inform him of everything said here. I may return with more information.




About the RCMP importing. Doesn't the military/RCMP have some things to do with airsoft? Or 'training' equipment? I thought they had something to do with dummy equipment and even airsoft usage for... Training? Maybe not RCMP... I do not know... I am not sure of replica firearms part. I will be talking to him tomorrow.

SEASKIMMEr March 2nd, 2008 19:23

i still dont get it.

is it legal to bring in an airsoft gun from the states???

is it legal to buy an airsoft gun from somewhere else and have it mailed/shipped in???

im interested in gettina a CA g36C but i cant find any canadian retailers so im wondering if its legal to get one from the states and bring it over

ty for ur help

CadetCatastrophe March 2nd, 2008 19:31

NOOOOOO
Read the FAQ's

Fiya March 2nd, 2008 19:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by SEASKIMMEr (Post 658970)
i still dont get it.

is it legal to bring in an airsoft gun from the states???

is it legal to buy an airsoft gun from somewhere else and have it mailed/shipped in???

im interested in gettina a CA g36C but i cant find any canadian retailers so im wondering if its legal to get one from the states and bring it over

ty for ur help

No. You can't bring it in. It will be seized. It has to be from Canada if you want one.

There are retailers in Canada. Anything shipped from the US will be seized at the border


www.007airsoft.com -Low ammount of in stock right now... The AEG they have is a G36C I think... I haven't checked lately


Read the FAQ before posting more questions....

kullwarrior March 2nd, 2008 20:03

And exactly what is the 407fps -500fps using 0.23g bb rules? Where can I find "official" info about it? I remember people mention that if a replica is design to cause harm but not death its allow. and the "cause harm" was define in 05/06 I believe

Fiya March 2nd, 2008 20:07

http://www.airsoftcanada.com/showthread.php?t=51609

TokyoSeven March 2nd, 2008 20:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by kullwarrior (Post 659034)
And exactly what is the 407fps -500fps using 0.23g bb rules? Where can I find "official" info about it? I remember people mention that if a replica is design to cause harm but not death its allow. and the "cause harm" was define in 05/06 I believe

I would just like to be the first to say, that your statement made almost absolutley no sense. If you take said "replica that is said to cause harm but not death" and commit a crime with it, in court they will simply just consider it a crime with a firearm. Long story short, the words replica and allow usually do not go well together.

kullwarrior March 2nd, 2008 20:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fiya (Post 659037)

is that official? I read it 20X already

and any replica use in crime is consider firearm. What I meant is the case where 407-500fps with .23g could be allow in. Heard several cases but whats the official statement? CFC does not have it

Fiya March 2nd, 2008 20:32

Well if your going to be like that, do you believe it? Look up case law yourself!

Your other post really didn't make sense so.... Do some more research. There may not be an official statement about it... I don't even know exactly what your looking for. If you really want to know, you should be going to a lawyer, the first 20 minutes is normally free.

Also even this last post is a little off if what I remember about my incursions into law is correct... But that doesn't matter. You need to explain yourself better.....

TokyoSeven March 2nd, 2008 20:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by kullwarrior (Post 659049)
is that official? I read it 20X already

and any replica use in crime is consider firearm. What I meant is the case where 407-500fps with .23g could be allow in. Heard several cases but whats the official statement? CFC does not have it

Yes I do recall something about the rcmp and bbs weighing .22g or something but I cant remeber any details. All I can really say is its one of those laws that can go either way, and most of the time it goes whatever way the authoritys want it to go.

kullwarrior March 2nd, 2008 20:56

Found what I was looking for but there's another problem with the statement;
Quote:

The CBSA argued that, to be considered a firearm and not a replica, an airsoft gun must have a muzzle velocity in excess of 124 metres per second.
http://www.canlii.org/en/ca/citt/doc...nlii11266.html

But isn't it illegal still when you import it according to the ASC community? Say if I import a Systema PTW with M150 (which would be less than 500fps when RCMP test because they use .23g bbs)
And here it argues that above 124mps (407fps) it is consider as a firearm. Furthermore, CFC identifies that 5.7J& 500fps+ are firearm require license.

Now the confusing part is the fps between 407 and 500, are they considered as legal goods? or what?

Fiya March 2nd, 2008 21:09

I really haven't researched it that much. It was supposed to be for 'Airguns' I believe. So being more of a replica may change... Overall I agree with TokyoSeven... The Authorities will have alot of say. Unless you want to bring in the lawyers it is hard to say. Going back to the text, using case law and bringing in the lawyers is most likely going to take away any of the money you saved by getting it from the US yourself.

TokyoSeven March 2nd, 2008 21:30

Thats just the thing, there are alot of costs that people do not think about when it comes to a dispute, in most cases when its all said and done it costs even more than buying the same AEG in Canada.

kullwarrior March 3rd, 2008 00:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by TokyoSeven (Post 659116)
Thats just the thing, there are alot of costs that people do not think about when it comes to a dispute, in most cases when its all said and done it costs even more than buying the same AEG in Canada.

unless you go mass import I guess, eg import 200 PTWs

TokyoSeven March 3rd, 2008 00:20

Anyone who had the captital to invest in something that large, would also have the brains to go about doing it the correct way.

Fiya March 3rd, 2008 01:20

Actually, you CANT import, say 200 models. Or at least 200 at a time. There is a limit to 3 of a kind during importing. You would have to order many different kinds, maximum of 3 of each.

mcguyver March 3rd, 2008 01:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fiya (Post 659319)
Actually, you CANT import, say 200 models. Or at least 200 at a time. There is a limit to 3 of a kind during importing. You would have to order many different kinds, maximum of 3 of each.

This is only true for those with a BFL for prohibited devices with a limits clauses. They limit retailers to an inventory of no more than 3 of any one model, which effectively translates into importing 3 (assuming the retailer possesses zero at the time). Guys like Canadian Tire (if they import directly, or if not then their supplier) for Crosman guns would be imprting hundreds or thousands of a single model at any one time. Think of how many gun shops, hardware stores, sporting good stores would carry the Crosman Colt Python "replica" for example.

The thing to keep in mind is, importing guns is an iffy business. Just because you think you understand the law does not mean an agency can't nail you with a policy that seemingly contradicts your interpretation of law, or even a reasonable interpretation by a legal professional.

Let's look at importing a PTW for example. Let's assume that you buy an off-the-shelf MAX gun from Redwolf. It will come with an M150. It makes it to the border and is seized, as you would expect, even though you claim it shoots 150 m/s (under the limit of 152.4 m/s). The CBSA says, "OK, we'll get it tested by the RCMP, and if it's true, you're fine". Sounds reasonable and seems to fit with their policies. The RCMP receives the gun and tests it. Do you think the M150 is consistant enough not to shoot over 500 fps (152.4m/s) knowing that some have clocked 550 fps, while others have been 480 fps? What if it clocks over? Even though the law reads 500 fps or 5.7J, it can and has been applied as 500 fps and 5.7J to determine legality. But it may not in fact be applied this way.

Now, let's assume that it clocks fine at under 500 fps. Now it would be considered a firearm. Selective-fire firearms in any form are illegal in Canada. So, could they nail you here as well? The only way to ensure that this is not an issue is to order a factory semi-auto only MAX gun, and have the cylinder verified to chrono under 500 fps with the most common ammo available, 0.20g as recommended by Systema in their supplied owner's manual. This will avoid any confusion over recommended ammo as the manufacturer specifies it and allow you some wiggle room if testing is done with other ammo weights.

This is all conjecture, as the 407 fps policy is an unofficial RCMP policy (you will not get it in print I promise you) that the CBSA and CITT have accepted for the purposes of framing policy. This is not in fact law at all, so you can challenge a policy directly in a CBSA appeal, but they can change the policy tomorrow to screw you in a different orifice. This policy has been circumvented by retailers in the past, and the door ended up getting slammed on them anyways.

Fiya March 3rd, 2008 01:46

Hmm... Yes, I actually went off in that direction... I expect that, if you were to try and import a large amount you would get a BFL with access to prohibited items. That is what I was refering to. My info was from the recent Q&A. I actually forgot they were talking about the 408-500 thing... So I went off with that comment.

kullwarrior March 3rd, 2008 10:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcguyver (Post 659332)
...Now it would be considered a firearm. Selective-fire firearms in any form are illegal in Canada....

Wait a sec, though it consider as a firearm it is not official like the interperation, if you read the 20 odd cases where people tried to import airsoft, none if em had the semi auto and automatic problem. I could say that the 407fps to 500 fps is gray zone, especially I doubt theres anyway that will make PTW into a license firearm. I remember theres two cases where they got chroned at 430s, and 470s both were airsoft of AR-15 with automatic and are accepted into Canada, the arguement was for training, and military simulation game in private ground I believe.

And also for print one, check previous arguements in court appeals

mcguyver March 3rd, 2008 10:37

You are arguing policy, not law. The CBSA and the RCMP make policy here, not law. They can flip that policy on a dime to serve their needs, or their other policies on crime, gun control, etc.

Ceasure March 4th, 2008 00:28

im not sure if anyone has suggested this yet but in my mind seems to be the most reasonable option. ship the gun with a clearsoft slide... then it is nolonger consided a replica and would pass customs because it does not look like the real fire arm. then have the real slide mailed to you afterwards. i was thinking about contacting redwolf and trying this. I live in an border city so ive been down to the customs office a few times and they realy dont care about the laws lol. they basicaly told me if it looks or can be mistaken for the real firearm its not allowed to be imported, but if the slide was clear.....thoughts on this please?

Also i was thinking that the Hi Cappa should be able to be imported because it isnt a replica of a firearm. so technicaly then it isnt a firearm or prohibited weapon it is considered a toy, but because it "looks" like a firearm it is not allowed according to the 2 customs officers i talked to.

Fiya March 4th, 2008 00:31

You'd have to look this up, but isn't the slide a restricted item? As in you cannot import that either? Someone else comfirm/disprove this.

TokyoSeven March 4th, 2008 00:35

Its true, if it looks like a firearm,its probly not gona make it in. For exampl lets say anything in the seburo series, its not a real gun, but some have attempted to import and have failed misserably.

Nice idea on the clear slides, but you may want to consider that other parts of the gun maybe illegal to import as well. Say the frame or lower reciever.

When it comes to out of country importation and the CBSA I just think of it like this. They can take it if they want to, and most of the time they want to.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fiya (Post 660250)
You'd have to look this up, but isn't the slide a restricted item? As in you cannot import that either? Someone else comfirm/disprove this.

As is to my understanding, you can order them in at your own risk, I believe it has something to do with length, a slide of a certain length is permisable. That is not to say they may not take it anyways.

mcguyver March 4th, 2008 00:37

It is the frame or receiver of the weapon that is a controlled item. You can't technically import those items either, so you're still fucked. Nice try though, but it's been tried before.

Now, you can buy guns here, just like you can buy metal bodies, etc. here. But that has no bearing on importation regulations. Check with a retailer and find out.

Styrak March 4th, 2008 00:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by TokyoSeven (Post 660261)
As is to my understanding, you can order them in at your own risk, I believe it has something to do with length, a slide of a certain length is permisable. That is not to say they may not take it anyways.

To add to what TokyoSeven said, slides are importable. Also, prohibited length slides are 4.1" or shorter and might be seized. That being said, I ordered a G26c metal slide and barrel (prohibited length) and it got through fine.

Ceasure March 4th, 2008 00:48

ic...well they told me anything clear would be fine so that was my guess lol.

Fiya March 4th, 2008 00:55

That was probably referring to crossmans and the like. Fully clear airsoft guns...

TokyoSeven March 4th, 2008 01:05

Id just like to add that there have been instances where clear guns were seized as well. Even though clear guns do make it through, refer back to my comment about how they take it because they want to. Its disputeable, but do you really wanna waste the time and money on a clear gun?

kullwarrior March 4th, 2008 01:07

yea clearsoft is define by entire body CLEAR so meaning your lil idea doesn't work. I'm still wondering why there's same peoople trying to import airsoft and goto court with CBSA repeatly without learning lesson
this Arthur dude failed to import a 323fps Mp5 and then a year later (Jan 08) he tried to import a pistol with 200s fps. Like seriously, I were him and have free lawyer I rather use PTW and 2nd chance

Ceasure March 4th, 2008 01:15

it just bothers me more than most living in a border town. A all metal m9 in canada is around 350, in the USA its 100.

umm...?

Also where is this definition on "Clearsoft"?, the issues is that it is a exact or indistinguishable from the real weapon. whish still isnt the issue... the issues if that its a replica fire arm of a prohibited weapon.

Ceasure March 4th, 2008 01:28

sorry im not trying to sound rude and aregant, but it just bothers me that our government try's to regulate our "free" country to death, and can't do that clearly or precisly. i am in the process of making a proposal to customs canada about some discrepencies i see and attempt to find alternate ways of importing the gun. they seemed nice but as most of us, they dont know anything about the policy and laws that exist

TokyoSeven March 4th, 2008 01:41

Its airsoft, its not like their depriving you of oxygen.

I wouldnt say they know nothing, they know enough to do their jobs and personally I think they do their jobs very well.

kullwarrior March 4th, 2008 10:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ceasure (Post 660369)
sorry im not trying to sound rude and aregant, but it just bothers me that our government try's to regulate our "free" country to death, and can't do that clearly or precisly. i am in the process of making a proposal to customs canada about some discrepencies i see and attempt to find alternate ways of importing the gun. they seemed nice but as most of us, they dont know anything about the policy and laws that exist

blameing government for banning airsoft is like blaming firearm to all crimes. Mostly is the result of media on thinking gun = bad, airsoft = same as gun

Neil_N March 5th, 2008 08:33

My idea on this whole matter is that if someone is crazy enogh to take a hostage or rob a bank they didnt need no god dam "replica firearm" to encourage them. Its like when the blamed the snong cop killer for cops geting shot (witched still hapend in the 1800s befor modern music) Its the same with all of canadas gun laws a vat of usles good intentions to silence the media for a week. But hey thats my opinion. And if its that big of a deal make it so you have to register them not make it imposible to get one.
dam then i couldent use one till im 18! owell it would be worth it.

glitch1502319641 March 10th, 2008 14:03

Set me right
 
I'm sure this question has been answered before... but my internet connection is dodgy (Stupid wireless :banghead: ) but I seem to remember that parts of the Airsoft "replica" are legit to bring in, pretty much everything but the mag well, silencers, and mags with dummy bullets. ( I'm sure there's a couple others, but whatever)

My question is this: Do you think that if the AEG were disassembled, placed into 1 or 2 boxes, say one with the internals and the other with all the body parts minus the receiver. Then sent to myself in Canada by a friend in the states. Do you think that would be allowed.
(tangent) I'm not trying to 'get away with it' because I'm sure that some one has 'Gotten away with it' and I want to be legal.

Now as far as the receiver goes I could order one from Redwolf for $60 Shipping included, or find the receiver at one of the Canadian retailers...

Any way, thanks for reading and for your knowledge!

TokyoSeven March 10th, 2008 14:10

If you bought an M4 and had it shipped from the states with just mechbox front end, stock and pistol grip with no reciever. It would make it through, although customs may seize it anyways. Just because it looks like a box full of gun parts and they can be douches and take it if they want.

Quote:

Originally Posted by glitch1502319641@yahoo.com (Post 665789)
.

Now as far as the receiver goes I could order one from Redwolf for $60 Shipping included, or find the receiver at one of the Canadian retailers...

Im sorry that doesnt make much sense to me, your going to purchase a gun in the states and then have the reciever removed so the rest of the parts can maybe make it through and then attempt to have a reciever shipped from redwolf in the US. Nuh-uh stick to picking a body up in Canada.

Azathoth March 10th, 2008 15:47

Tokyo Seven did a good job in answering your question. However, I want to add some things.

1-2 shipments would probably not be good enough IF I were to do it I would do it in 4+ shipments. You would/should send it via a courier (UPS, FEDEX) which have the clearing houses and prepaid duties/custom charges attached.

Next, most if not all of the major airsoft retailers are on the Customs watch list for varying reasons. Some lie on the declarations form (notably HK dealers). Once you factor in the possibility or very likely hood of your package being opened, inspected, taxed, dutied and handling fee's added you may as well buy one from a CDN retailer.

The cost of doing all of this is high. Considering it's 30-50 dollars a shipment plus custom charges on each shipment you can end up spending 200+ with no guarantee of getting your gun to you.

Support the Canadian Retailers, buy within Canada.

(sic) unless you own a ocean worthy yacht, then you can goto the states/HK and buy your gun and bring it back.

glitch1502319641 March 11th, 2008 16:41

Hey, Thanks
 
Well, the problem is that I already have the gun, and one of my friends is holding onto it for me... so that's why I wouldn't mind spending a few $ on shipping and a receiver... I'm trying to not spend a whole lot on it, because I don't know anyone on Saltspring island who plays, so I'm trying to do it cheaply... but that word isn't in immagration vocab.
would anyone know of a decent store in Victoria? or somewhere thereabouts I can at leist save on shipping if I can pick it up there.
Thanks again for your help.

purplestairs March 15th, 2008 00:06

Laws and policies are becoming so strict. Back in the day.....

whisper_kill April 1st, 2008 07:54

I skimmed all the content, but I may have missed this, so I apologize in advance if it is already addressed.

I had a couple of U.S. players, interested in Humanity's Hammer, and they wanted to know if it is illegal to transport empty magazines and/or scopes across the border.

kalnaren April 1st, 2008 08:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by whisper_kill (Post 682861)
I skimmed all the content, but I may have missed this, so I apologize in advance if it is already addressed.

I had a couple of U.S. players, interested in Humanity's Hammer, and they wanted to know if it is illegal to transport empty magazines and/or scopes across the border.

As long as the magazines don't have fake bullets they should be fine. Scopes are fine as well.

brucebeh May 26th, 2008 14:59

sorry i'm a noobie and kinda confused here...

After reading the FAQ over and over again I've come to the conclusion that Airsoft is LEGAL to own in Canada.

However, it is illegal to purchase them after 1998, now my question is, if it is illegal to buy them after 1998, how do sites like buyairsoft.ca exist? Do you need some sort of license before you can buy from them?


I'm just interested in buying one or two just for fun...

http://buyairsoft.ca/catalog/product...roducts_id=279
http://buyairsoft.ca/catalog/product...roducts_id=392
http://buyairsoft.ca/catalog/product...roducts_id=296


Should I be worried about anything? Is it illegal to buy these items since its 2008?


Thanks in advance!!!

TokyoSeven May 26th, 2008 15:24

Well one of the guns you have choosen appears to be a pellet gun so we dont have to explain anything there.

Its a little complicated and somewhat difficult to explain. Essentially what your getting from buyairsoft is a partially clear plastic gun. When it comes to replica law and all that lovely confusing garbage, if its clear its ok is the jist of it. It is much more compliated than that but for all intensive purposes today, we dont have to go there.

You should be fine purchasing though, although just as a word of caution in some cases buyairsoft has not been noted to be the most reliable retailer, but everyones experience is different.

brucebeh May 26th, 2008 16:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by TokyoSeven (Post 726595)
Well one of the guns you have choosen appears to be a pellet gun so we dont have to explain anything there.

Its a little complicated and somewhat difficult to explain. Essentially what your getting from buyairsoft is a partially clear plastic gun. When it comes to replica law and all that lovely confusing garbage, if its clear its ok is the jist of it. It is much more compliated than that but for all intensive purposes today, we dont have to go there.

You should be fine purchasing though, although just as a word of caution in some cases buyairsoft has not been noted to be the most reliable retailer, but everyones experience is different.


So pellet guns are a nono?

I'm thinking either the first or second one, second one because it has blowback which i think would be really neat but its clear plastic.

the first one is black plastic so its not see-through, would that still be ok?


are there any reviews of buyairsoft.ca?

TokyoSeven May 26th, 2008 16:42

I thought my explanation was simple enough but I guess I have to clarify.
Pellet guns are perfectly fine to buy, you can buy them at Canadian tire. However not good to use in an airsoft game. If you show up and try and play with one of those they wont even let you on the field with it. If you have more questions about airguns or pellet guns, I suggest you go to here: http://www.airgunforum.ca/forum/index.php

I could tell you where to find reviews about buyairsoft. But I wont. I will however tell you how to find reviews about buyairsoft. Near the upper right hand corner is a search button, click it to open a tab and type in buyairsoft click search and it should yield a fair amount of threads, read through them and eventually you will find a few threads thats will tell you what you need to know.

Now you have stated that you have read and reread the faqs, and you may have learned some info but I suggest maybe you take the time to go through some of the FAQS threads again. Theres alot of info in there, and you can learn it all at once, it takes time.

Lizander May 26th, 2008 21:23

can I do this?
 
oops sorry, I was new to this site (I still am but at least know what I'm doing) and I posted late at night so I wasn't thinking clearly. I just picked a random thread and posted in it. I couldn't find the thread for a while so I couldn't delete it. I will delete this post in a day or two. just a sorry to you guys. and to tycho:
I like your sense of humour.

tycho May 26th, 2008 21:39

yeah, go for it. I'm sure if you read any of the stickied threads (like the one you're posting in) you'll find that importing airsoft guns is easy.

SHÖCK June 5th, 2008 04:27

Can somebody explain to me why pellet guns that are fully replicas or even made by the genuine gun manufacturers or liscensed by them are legal in Canada whereas airsoft is not? When Pellet guns are much more dangerous in fact and many of them are just as realistic? And those same pellet guns are legally sold to people without and special liscenses, etc. also as long as they fall under 500FPS. Why does airsoft recieve such scrutiny when pellet and metal bb guns do not have to be clearsoft?

TokyoSeven June 5th, 2008 04:30

http://www.airsoftcanada.com/showthread.php?t=51609

Look for:

Quote:

Airguns look like replicas to me, what's the deal?
Sorry, I cant offer any more, but well since your there, give the whole thing a once over. Never know, you might learn something new as well.

MillerBRo June 7th, 2008 13:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by SNK (Post 735326)
Can somebody explain to me why pellet guns that are fully replicas or even made by the genuine gun manufacturers or liscensed by them are legal in Canada whereas airsoft is not? When Pellet guns are much more dangerous in fact and many of them are just as realistic? And those same pellet guns are legally sold to people without and special liscenses, etc. also as long as they fall under 500FPS. Why does airsoft recieve such scrutiny when pellet and metal bb guns do not have to be clearsoft?

Yes- if you search online long enough you will find a draft where the opposition party discovered that the government was going to make airguns firearms as well and turn a bunch of law abiding canadians into criminals for owning them...and they stopped them... no one in government bothered to stand up for airsoft at the time ;)

Brian McIlmoyle June 7th, 2008 13:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by MillerBRo (Post 737009)
Yes- if you search online long enough you will find a draft where the opposition party discovered that the government was going to make airguns replicas as well and turn a bunch of law abiding canadians into criminals for owning them...and they stopped them... no one in government bothered to stand up for airsoft at the time ;)

A replica is a replica.. it does not matter if its an airgun that fires steel bbs, lead pellets or nothing. If it looks like a gun but in not a firearm its a replica.

The classification of whether any one object is a Replica is a matter of Fact not a matter of Law. To be a replica an object must be proven to be a replica in a court of law. This does not define a class of objects as replicas.

"airsoft" is a meaningless term that has zero legal relevance.

Airsoft guns and airguns that look like real guns are sold under an unspecified condition as they are not classifed as replicas until proven so. This is the so-called "grey area" of the classification of airsoft guns. In every case that I have researched where airsoft guns are material to a crime they have successfuly been proven to be replica firearms and proven as prohibited devices.

So your aursoft gun is "technically" not a replica until you do something stupid with it and get arrested and are convicted. Then it likely will be proven to be a replica and you will face all relevant charges pertaining to the miss use of prohibited devices.

MillerBRo June 7th, 2008 14:13

agreed- however the fact remains that the government was pushing to have a whole section of airguns classified as firearms because they felt they looked 'close enough'- the opposition party was able to stop them by pointing out the definition of replica already covers an airgun that looks like a real gun (replica), that they were NOT firearms legally, and that to try to make nonreplica airguns classified as replicas or firearms would muddy the waters and turn citizens who purchased the guns legally into criminals after the fact:

NEWS RELEASE
November 19, 2001

For Immediate Re lease

WHY DID RCMP AND JUSTICE OFFICIALS SAY THERE HAD BEEN NO CHANGE IN POLICY?
"Access documents prove the RCMP had changed the airgun registration policy
on March 6, 2000!"

Ottawa - Today, Garry Breitkreuz, the Official Opposition's gun control
critic, released documents proving officials in the Department of Justice
and the RCMP misled the media and the public during and following last
year's election. "I won't impugn the motives of these officials but their
public statements are now clearly at odds with the documents and no doubt
their comments helped the Liberals win a few key seats, particularly in
Ontario," claimed the Saskatchewan MP.

On November 17th, 2000, acting on complaints of firearms dealers and tips
received from officers working inside the RCMP's Firearms Registry,
Breitkreuz exposed the fact that a number of airguns and pellet rifles had
been reclassified as firearms and some had even been registered in
accordance with the law. Breitkreuz maintained that the Liberals were
trying to keep this quiet until after the election so as not to provoke
approximately two million airgun owners in Canada.

When Breitkreuz broke the story, officials from both the RCMP and Department
of Justice were quoted in the following newspapers:

(1) "But the head of the Canadian Firearms Registry, Mike Buisson, denied
the claims and insisted there has been no change in policy." - The Edmonton
Sun - November 18, 2000, Page 6

(2) "There's been no policy change," he [David Austin, Canadian Firearms
Centre spokesperson] said. - The Moncton Times and Transcript - November 23,
2000, Page A1

(3) "However, [RCMP] registry spokesperson Joan Oliver said she believed no
decision had been made about classing the pellet guns as firearms." - The
Moncton Times and Transcript - November 23, 2000, Page A1

(4) "No policy decision has been made yet on airguns," Mr. Austin said. "No
changes have been made to the list that would make them firearms." - New
Brunswick Telegraph Journal, November 11, 2000, Page C1

These statements were contradicted by RCMP documents obtained by Breitkreuz
after a year and a half investigation by the Information Commissioner's
office [RCMP File: 00ATIP-16792].

DOCUMENT #1 dated March 6, 2000 showing the airgun policy was changed - RCMP
Firearms Standards Committee, Records of Decisions Made, Approved Signature
J.A.J. Buisson, Superintendent, Registrar, RCMP Canadian Firearms Registry,
Dated 2000-03-06, ADMINISTRATIVE POLICY #14.

DOCUMENT #2 dated April 13, 2000 showing how officials in the RCMP's
Firearms Registry would implement the ADMINISTRATIVE POLICY #14 - Memorandum
from Cpl. L. Cyr, NCO i/c Correspondence Unit to S/Sgt. A. Drouin, NCO i/c
Legislation and Regulations.

DOCUMENT #3 dated May 8, 2000 shows the RCMP advising the Department of
Justice about ADMINISTRATIVE POLICY #14 - Letter from Superintendent J.A.J.
(Mike) Buisson, Registrar, Canadian Firearms Centre to Mr. William Bartlett,
Council, Canadian Firearms Centre with copies to Maryantonett Flumian, Chief
Executive Officer, DOJ, et al. QUOTE: "In other words, airguns will be
tested to determine whether they are in fact firearms. If so, the licencing
and registration requirements set out in the Firearms Act are applicable.
As you can well imagine, this will result in a substantially increased
number of firearms requiring registration. Certain short-barreled airguns
will change status from 'deemed non-firearm' to prohibited firearms."

DOCUMENT #4 shows hundreds of airguns listed as firearms on the RCMP's FRT
(Firearms Reference Table) as of 17 November 2000 - Non-Restricted = 377,
Restricted = 50, Prohibited = 5.

"Now, all we don't know is why the RCMP and Justice Department officials
misled the media and the public," concluded Breitkreuz.

MillerBRo June 7th, 2008 14:19

ahh found the actual page: http://www.garrybreitkreuz.com/breit...nControl59.htm

edit- all of this is exactly as Brian says it is btw- I am not disagreeing but rather trying to explain what I was saying better ;)

Brian McIlmoyle June 8th, 2008 00:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by MillerBRo (Post 737060)
ahh found the actual page: http://www.garrybreitkreuz.com/breit...nControl59.htm

edit- all of this is exactly as Brian says it is btw- I am not disagreeing but rather trying to explain what I was saying better ;)

It depends on the muzzel velocity. This is kinda the point of the articles cited...

The method of defining what is a firearm was simplified in 2000.

If it fires a shot or projectile over 500 FPS its a firearm regardless of what propels the projectile.
So overnight people who thought they owned airguns now owned firearms.. subject to registration.

You have to be careful about pulling up old documents. Things can change and they do.

Of course the police can't seem to keep up so no reason to think anyone else would.

mcguyver June 8th, 2008 00:23

That controversy is what lead to the inclusion of an energy requirement to the law, to "fix" the interpretation of what 500 fps really means, especially with various pellets used.

MillerBRo June 8th, 2008 22:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcguyver (Post 737498)
That controversy is what lead to the inclusion of an energy requirement to the law, to "fix" the interpretation of what 500 fps really means, especially with various pellets used.

ahhhh gotcha- good to know ;)

shadia July 8th, 2008 23:23

I've been reading those threads for a few hours now and I just have to ask to make sure since I didn't find a clear answer, though from all this I would think the answer is no...

If I were to use a air gun, or any kind of replica as an accessory to a costume (ex. soldier), I could not walk around with it even if it were not loaded. Unless this costume was for theatre or movies?

mcguyver July 8th, 2008 23:32

You could not walk around in public, but on a stage or at a private costume party at your house, you probably could. Being on stage with a gun might cause a bit of a stir though, so best check local ordinances as well.

shadia July 8th, 2008 23:37

Thanks for your help; That's what I thought...

Donster July 8th, 2008 23:46

im afraid i still dont understand why we cant classify airsoft as firearms and get a place like Wolverine Supplies to order it for us assuming we all have our PAL and such. can someone explain that to me?

Bowers July 9th, 2008 00:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by DONSTER 125 (Post 762619)
im afraid i still dont understand why we cant classify airsoft as firearms and get a place like Wolverine Supplies to order it for us assuming we all have our PAL and such. can someone explain that to me?

well first i really doubt the idea of airsoft can be considered a shooting sport like hunting or target shooting

furthur more if they were to be classified as firearms would we not have to abide by the same restrictions that firearms carry?

StarfuryMS July 9th, 2008 07:26

The Ideal solution for all this of course, would be if the government could be convinced that there is nothing inherently "wrong" with airsoft guns, and grant them their own section under the Firearms act that defines exactly what an airsoft gun is, and allows their import, purchase and sale. Of course, there would have to be some restrictions to appease the gun control nuts, like only being able to buy them if you are over 18. It would also be nice if they recognized Airsoft as a sport, like paint ball. That would make things so much simpler, wouldn't it?

Of course, trying to get the government to do anything sensible is like banging your head on a brick wall , isn't it? lol

kalnaren July 9th, 2008 08:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by DONSTER 125 (Post 762619)
im afraid i still dont understand why we cant classify airsoft as firearms and get a place like Wolverine Supplies to order it for us assuming we all have our PAL and such. can someone explain that to me?

We've been through this a thousand times. If airsoft guns were "firearms", all of the restrictions that apply to firearms would apply to airsoft. ALL of them. So.. 5 round mags, no full auto, and we wouldn't be allowed to shoot them at eachother.

gabe_guitarded July 9th, 2008 16:38

Get it shooting upwards of 407 FPS then downgrade it to less than 407fps and see if it stops being classified as a firearm even though it was imported as one. This probably won't work but it's an idea I guess.

P.S. StarfuryMS +1

The Saint July 9th, 2008 16:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by gabe_guitarded (Post 763017)
Get it shooting upwards of 407 FPS then downgrade it to less than 407fps and see if it stops being classified as a firearm even though it was imported as one. This probably won't work but it's an idea I guess.

There's an entire dozen page thread on why that wouldn't work. The short of it is that the 407fps rule has no bearing in actual law.

808 July 10th, 2008 15:35

Mirror the VCR Act in the UK.

Works for them. Can work for us. Let's start a petition and send it to the public safety minister.


Just a thought, anyways.

The Saint July 10th, 2008 15:56

The VCRA was decidingly anti-airsoft. It still is. The only reason the British airsofters were able to save themselves was because 1. there are a hell of a lot of them, and 2. they were able to participate in the process behind VCRA. There aren't a lot of us, and the Firearms Act is a decade old and difficult to change. Finally, the defence provided for British airsofters is pretty crappy.

We don't need public petitions. Petitions do nothing, especially when it's tiny. If we need anything at all, it's another policy push.

808 July 10th, 2008 16:15

If you have any other ideas on how to start a policy push - you're welcome to share them.

;)

And as anti-airsoft as the VCRA is, it still allows UK airsofters to own, operate, and import airsoft guns & equipment.

kalnaren July 10th, 2008 17:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by 808 (Post 763866)
If you have any other ideas on how to start a policy push - you're welcome to share them.

;)

And as anti-airsoft as the VCRA is, it still allows UK airsofters to own, operate, and import airsoft guns & equipment.

The difference is in the UK the law didn't exist to make airsoft illegal. In canada it already does and has for 10 years.

airsoft7895 July 14th, 2008 02:10

if you are under the age of 18 would a parent be able to verify you?

Bowers July 14th, 2008 02:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by airsoft7895 (Post 766726)
if you are under the age of 18 would a parent be able to verify you?

the purpose of verification is too keep minors out of the classifieds that would defeat the purpose would it not?

Dirtbag July 14th, 2008 12:58

Regulation not law
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by kalnaren (Post 763915)
The difference is in the UK the law didn't exist to make airsoft illegal. In canada it already does and has for 10 years.

Airsoft is not illegal by law, but rather regulation. The criminal code defines that replica's are illegal. The firearms regulations define what is a replica, which is the problem or our saving grace depending on how you look at it. Some office worker decides that this airgun is a replica and this one is not, they do not have to justify anything, there is no debate (that we know of). Regulation changes, yesterday you were a law abiding citizen today you are a criminal in possession of a a prohibited device, and as icing on the cake with little or no notice.

Ok that is a simplification, but none the less that is how it works. While in fact there is little or no difference between much of the clearsoft and regular airsoft the regulation says one is illegal to import and one is not.

Until the various gun groups, and airgun groups get together this will be a downhill battle. Staying "under the Radar" has never and will never work, you need to be out in the public eye all the time. Demand your rights and hammer on all those who claim you are dangerous or an abberation. Worked for the gay community, should work for firearms people too.

MillerBRo July 14th, 2008 15:13

Indeed- for as much as we see airsoft guns as a great sport the average canadian is seemingly VERY anti-gun. Just last night on the news there was a BIG report on some idiots out in Vancouver who were looking at their hunting rifles on a public street. Someone passing by called it in and the cops swooped in on them. The guns were all legal, all legally licenced and owned... but displaying them even casually on the street had the neighbors dialing 911. After the police arrested the owner the neighbors all came out and congradulated themselves in front of the TV camera... it seemed a little... over reactionary to me but to them they had just removed a 'menace' from their neighborhood.

Long_Bong July 14th, 2008 15:28

To make even more sense of out of this, I spoke with the police analys in charge of releasing weapon permit in Quebec. Here is the law down here (at least, provincial wise):

You can own a AK (or any firearm) that was disabled by a certified weapon tech. You don t need a permit, licence, or any document, no need to register it as well. All you need is certificate stating that it was disabled by a qualified weapon tech. But if it shoot stuff (pellet, BB, etc) it become a replica and it illegal... But, if you go to canadian tire, you can get a Crossman pellet pistol that look very real to me... Make no sense...

Brian McIlmoyle July 14th, 2008 15:39

Urban
 
Populations are by and large anti gun.. as this is where most of the gun related shootings ocurr.

Rural populations are not Anti-gun because for many of them Guns are used regularly both for sport and subsistance and defense ( against animals )

A huge majority could care less either way... and on the balance restricting guns seems like a good idea to someone who could really care less. Most people are confortable with fences they can't see or that they can pass through unhindered.

Pro Gun is against both the rabid anti gun lobby and the appathy of the majority who in the face of a persuasuve argument see the merit of anti gun laws.

Fact is guns are going to get more restricted not less.. over time.. ( though the opposite just happened in the USA )
Canadians have no constitutional right to the possession of weapons.. so the issue is not a "rights" issue here it is a "law and Order" issue.
Lots of people have tried to make it a rights issue and so far the courts won't hear them. ( or shut them dowm pretty quick )

BloodSport July 14th, 2008 17:04

I'm locking this thread, its servered its purpose. And is only now being used by those not in the know to argue with those who are. Thanks to those who do know and have tried to keep this thread clean and clear.

To the new players who are reading this, please re read the first post, it was wrote by one of the senior members who has spent a ton of time and money to learn and become knowledgable about the laws and regulations surrounding this sport.


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