Airsoft Canada

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-   -   Airsoft and Canadian Law - Important Readme for New Folks (cleaned) (https://airsoftcanada.com/showthread.php?t=23034)

TokyoSeven March 3rd, 2008 00:20

Anyone who had the captital to invest in something that large, would also have the brains to go about doing it the correct way.

Fiya March 3rd, 2008 01:20

Actually, you CANT import, say 200 models. Or at least 200 at a time. There is a limit to 3 of a kind during importing. You would have to order many different kinds, maximum of 3 of each.

mcguyver March 3rd, 2008 01:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fiya (Post 659319)
Actually, you CANT import, say 200 models. Or at least 200 at a time. There is a limit to 3 of a kind during importing. You would have to order many different kinds, maximum of 3 of each.

This is only true for those with a BFL for prohibited devices with a limits clauses. They limit retailers to an inventory of no more than 3 of any one model, which effectively translates into importing 3 (assuming the retailer possesses zero at the time). Guys like Canadian Tire (if they import directly, or if not then their supplier) for Crosman guns would be imprting hundreds or thousands of a single model at any one time. Think of how many gun shops, hardware stores, sporting good stores would carry the Crosman Colt Python "replica" for example.

The thing to keep in mind is, importing guns is an iffy business. Just because you think you understand the law does not mean an agency can't nail you with a policy that seemingly contradicts your interpretation of law, or even a reasonable interpretation by a legal professional.

Let's look at importing a PTW for example. Let's assume that you buy an off-the-shelf MAX gun from Redwolf. It will come with an M150. It makes it to the border and is seized, as you would expect, even though you claim it shoots 150 m/s (under the limit of 152.4 m/s). The CBSA says, "OK, we'll get it tested by the RCMP, and if it's true, you're fine". Sounds reasonable and seems to fit with their policies. The RCMP receives the gun and tests it. Do you think the M150 is consistant enough not to shoot over 500 fps (152.4m/s) knowing that some have clocked 550 fps, while others have been 480 fps? What if it clocks over? Even though the law reads 500 fps or 5.7J, it can and has been applied as 500 fps and 5.7J to determine legality. But it may not in fact be applied this way.

Now, let's assume that it clocks fine at under 500 fps. Now it would be considered a firearm. Selective-fire firearms in any form are illegal in Canada. So, could they nail you here as well? The only way to ensure that this is not an issue is to order a factory semi-auto only MAX gun, and have the cylinder verified to chrono under 500 fps with the most common ammo available, 0.20g as recommended by Systema in their supplied owner's manual. This will avoid any confusion over recommended ammo as the manufacturer specifies it and allow you some wiggle room if testing is done with other ammo weights.

This is all conjecture, as the 407 fps policy is an unofficial RCMP policy (you will not get it in print I promise you) that the CBSA and CITT have accepted for the purposes of framing policy. This is not in fact law at all, so you can challenge a policy directly in a CBSA appeal, but they can change the policy tomorrow to screw you in a different orifice. This policy has been circumvented by retailers in the past, and the door ended up getting slammed on them anyways.

Fiya March 3rd, 2008 01:46

Hmm... Yes, I actually went off in that direction... I expect that, if you were to try and import a large amount you would get a BFL with access to prohibited items. That is what I was refering to. My info was from the recent Q&A. I actually forgot they were talking about the 408-500 thing... So I went off with that comment.

kullwarrior March 3rd, 2008 10:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcguyver (Post 659332)
...Now it would be considered a firearm. Selective-fire firearms in any form are illegal in Canada....

Wait a sec, though it consider as a firearm it is not official like the interperation, if you read the 20 odd cases where people tried to import airsoft, none if em had the semi auto and automatic problem. I could say that the 407fps to 500 fps is gray zone, especially I doubt theres anyway that will make PTW into a license firearm. I remember theres two cases where they got chroned at 430s, and 470s both were airsoft of AR-15 with automatic and are accepted into Canada, the arguement was for training, and military simulation game in private ground I believe.

And also for print one, check previous arguements in court appeals

mcguyver March 3rd, 2008 10:37

You are arguing policy, not law. The CBSA and the RCMP make policy here, not law. They can flip that policy on a dime to serve their needs, or their other policies on crime, gun control, etc.

Ceasure March 4th, 2008 00:28

im not sure if anyone has suggested this yet but in my mind seems to be the most reasonable option. ship the gun with a clearsoft slide... then it is nolonger consided a replica and would pass customs because it does not look like the real fire arm. then have the real slide mailed to you afterwards. i was thinking about contacting redwolf and trying this. I live in an border city so ive been down to the customs office a few times and they realy dont care about the laws lol. they basicaly told me if it looks or can be mistaken for the real firearm its not allowed to be imported, but if the slide was clear.....thoughts on this please?

Also i was thinking that the Hi Cappa should be able to be imported because it isnt a replica of a firearm. so technicaly then it isnt a firearm or prohibited weapon it is considered a toy, but because it "looks" like a firearm it is not allowed according to the 2 customs officers i talked to.

Fiya March 4th, 2008 00:31

You'd have to look this up, but isn't the slide a restricted item? As in you cannot import that either? Someone else comfirm/disprove this.

TokyoSeven March 4th, 2008 00:35

Its true, if it looks like a firearm,its probly not gona make it in. For exampl lets say anything in the seburo series, its not a real gun, but some have attempted to import and have failed misserably.

Nice idea on the clear slides, but you may want to consider that other parts of the gun maybe illegal to import as well. Say the frame or lower reciever.

When it comes to out of country importation and the CBSA I just think of it like this. They can take it if they want to, and most of the time they want to.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fiya (Post 660250)
You'd have to look this up, but isn't the slide a restricted item? As in you cannot import that either? Someone else comfirm/disprove this.

As is to my understanding, you can order them in at your own risk, I believe it has something to do with length, a slide of a certain length is permisable. That is not to say they may not take it anyways.

mcguyver March 4th, 2008 00:37

It is the frame or receiver of the weapon that is a controlled item. You can't technically import those items either, so you're still fucked. Nice try though, but it's been tried before.

Now, you can buy guns here, just like you can buy metal bodies, etc. here. But that has no bearing on importation regulations. Check with a retailer and find out.

Styrak March 4th, 2008 00:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by TokyoSeven (Post 660261)
As is to my understanding, you can order them in at your own risk, I believe it has something to do with length, a slide of a certain length is permisable. That is not to say they may not take it anyways.

To add to what TokyoSeven said, slides are importable. Also, prohibited length slides are 4.1" or shorter and might be seized. That being said, I ordered a G26c metal slide and barrel (prohibited length) and it got through fine.

Ceasure March 4th, 2008 00:48

ic...well they told me anything clear would be fine so that was my guess lol.

Fiya March 4th, 2008 00:55

That was probably referring to crossmans and the like. Fully clear airsoft guns...

TokyoSeven March 4th, 2008 01:05

Id just like to add that there have been instances where clear guns were seized as well. Even though clear guns do make it through, refer back to my comment about how they take it because they want to. Its disputeable, but do you really wanna waste the time and money on a clear gun?

kullwarrior March 4th, 2008 01:07

yea clearsoft is define by entire body CLEAR so meaning your lil idea doesn't work. I'm still wondering why there's same peoople trying to import airsoft and goto court with CBSA repeatly without learning lesson
this Arthur dude failed to import a 323fps Mp5 and then a year later (Jan 08) he tried to import a pistol with 200s fps. Like seriously, I were him and have free lawyer I rather use PTW and 2nd chance


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