Long game Question
 

After reading through a lot of game posts here and through various U.S. airsoft sites and what not I got to wondering. How many folks would attend a 3 day long game? For argument sake the game would be modern milisim held over 3 days during a long weekend or something. Camping would be held on field in each teams operations base.
I have seen that our American counter parts seem to go all out and hit events that take up entire weekends. Mind you they have a larger base of players than we do but it made me wonder just how many folks in Canada would go to such an event?

I would definitely go, camping and airsoft into one experience, who could want more?

The longest airsoft event in the world is Berget in Sweden, its a week long airsoft event.

A non-stop three day scenario, or a scenario parceled into three days?

For argument sakes let say.. 3 day long scenario.... now that should make it really interesting...lol.

But comments on both would be welcomed as well... I am just wondering where Canadian airsofters are at as opposed to American airsofters.

I'd be all for it, although like likelihood that I'd be able to get away for a full 3 days is next to nil.

I'd love something like that... only problem is of course, many people do not have enough equipment for games like that (enough batteries and the like)

You would need a Very Very large secluded area, a few hundred acres at the very least to sustain something to last that long. Or a very small player cap just to keep things interesting. People get bored and "wander" aimlessly if they are not entertained enough. It would really have to be a very well disciplined group of players, not your average skirmisher etc. Just my two cents. A 48 hr OP would be fun...72 might be pushing the fun bar a bit out of my reach.

i will go all depending on the loca

I agree with Ex, 48 hours non stop would be great. Each team would have a base to retreat to for rearming and reloading, with command posts that can be captured and occupied. The whole field would be in play, no out of play areas to "take a break". It would definitly be test of organizational skills for the host, keeping objectives and missions going to keep everyone in the fight. I'd be up for it, and I think the player cap should be kept low to have quality players over a quantity of players that will get bored/tired/lazy.

mh, only during the winter.

the "In Country" series of games are like this, though not for everyone, I hope to participate in one some day

Something like this would be cool. Though perhaps before jumping right into a 48-72 hour op perhaps first do a non-stop 24 hour one. That way it's still long that the stress and tiredness factor will kick in but short enough that the organizers can get a really good idea of the logistical needs for a longer running game as well.

isn't there an event similar to this?

I'm speaking of BorderWars

The idea of making long games is very interesting. Having 200+ airsofters playing for 2-3 days non stop would really make it nice. That's only if EVERYONE participates and plays fair. (calling hits)

Border wars has breaks and safe areas. I think this is like no breaks no safe areas, sleep and eat with goggles on and can be attacked at any time. Basically no matter what you're doing you're still in play.

The reason I ask is that after reading many posts and AA reports from various games in the states it seems that the majority of players really like those total immersion type games that last all weekend and I wonder how many of the Canadian airsofter's are into that type of game?

Long Games
 

It is still possible to have breaks and safe areas..

But they would have to be part of the scenario. For example units could be rotated out to rear areas that are goggle off areas.

You could make it that in order to maintain your safe rear area where people can rest and eat goggles off ( and recharge batts and such) your side would have to occupy and hold a forward area..

Basically you would have to hold the line.. if your in battle forward area fell then your safe zone then becomes a battle zone .. and you can no longer go goggles off.

fighting to keep your safe zone safe could be a significant objective .. particularly if you could only receive resupply through the safe zone.. loosing the safe zone could be akin to having your supply lines cut.

In Manitoba we have held a "Survivor" game for the past couple of years, sometimes the duration has been only 3 days where as other times it was a week.

The idea was that a small group of players "The Survivors" would deploy out into the field and anytime during the 3-7 days people could come out and hunt them 24/7.

On another note, you need to get a very specific type of player to a game that is intended to run for 24 hours+. If even a small number of people decided to leave mid game it results in a sub par game for the people who do remain(throws off team balance and becomes one sided very quickly). This is the exact reason why the last couple of years the Keystone Strike (Which is intended to be a 24 hour game) has always fallen short. This year in place of Keystone Strike we are running Operation Cold Front and it is on an invitation only basis to ensure that we get the quality of players so the game can be played as intended.

Wow, that sounds pretty interesting, paranoid. Certainly balances out people who want to camp out and people who don't.

Seems really interesting and paranoid's concept is neat.

Now I know that being underage I'm not myself nothing more than a chairsofter, but I think that such game should not aim for the more players possible BUT for experienced and motivated players, else it would be boring with people complaining, getting demotivated, etc.

I've recently seen a video of a France-Belgium game held over ~48 hours with NPC playing residents of the area that could attack both sides with "rocks" (made of foam) just to disturb them but could even 'kill' them. This makes a much more realistic experience, in my opinion.

Also, what Brian suggested with the "Hold your lines, you have a safe zone and supplies. Don't hold them, you don't..." That's something hard to setup as it everyone would need a radio so they know if the safe zone isn't safe anymore but that would rock.

And complete teams separation:
-Regular infantry
-Recce/Specops
-Observators/sharpshooters
+NPCs

Recce/Specops and sharpshooters could act in small teams and go behind ennemy lines (but then the safe zone thing would be screwed...) to observe and report or destroy assets...

I won't explane much as I'm sure you all got the point of making a real milsim instead of just a big skirmish.

Sounds like an AWSOME idea to me :P

If you wanna see what long period/immersion based game is all about..check out http://www.berget-events.com/

My two cents
 

Now this is a great idea, although I'd like to have a few more games under my belt before undertaking something of that scale. But, for the sake of playing devil's advocate here, I've got some suggestions for you, if you're serious about trying to get something of this magnitude going.

First, as many other posters have mentioned, it would require that you have some sort of standard to be met in order to weed out the "serious" players from the "non-serious" players. This would not only ensure that you've got dedicated players, but also the organizers wouldn't have to worry as much about injuries and the safety of those involved. This could be a two-tiered requirement of say, atleast 3 games already played, and confirmed by the organizer of said games, as well as a standard of gear required. By standard of gear, Im thinking: Must have a radio (for organizational ease), full kit (Including camo, vest, gun, goggles...blah, blah...) as well as the appropriate camping arrangements.

Second, I think you would benefit from having a team of organizers, so that you don't have to take the full brunt of organizing everything yourself. Perhaps other experienced vets in your area could help out, get some planning done. As a side note, you could appoint two of these people to be "team leaders", or whatever you'd like to call them, which would be responsible for helping enforce rules, scenarios, etc... while in the field. This would also help you organize the entire scenerio better.

I like the idea of not having safe zones, as it adds an aspect of realism to the game. As a possible answer to the concerns over always having goggles on, perhaps you could enforce a rule that inside tents, etc, you can take goggles off. To add to that, you might want to think about enforcing a rule that if someone storms into a tent, those people are "hit" so theres no point blank firing going on against people with no goggles on. Just a thought, but it would need more ironing out.

As for the layout of the scenario, it could be something similar to a "take and hold". By this I mean the objectives of both sides is to infiltrate the enemy encampment, seize control of it, and hold it for X hours. This could be done by assigning a "base command" building/area, which is what would need to be held for the X hours.

If I think of anything else, I'll post it up, but I think you should take some of these things into consideration.

2 days game need to have organised base for players to sleep in. From experience, once it's dark, there is not much action going on.

If the organisers provide shelter on the field (large tent, fire...) it can be very fesable.

As you said, not much. But having dedicated (and equipped) players ready to go scout or plan a surprise attack during the night, while some opponents are patrolling their area, would be something that adds a lot to the realism. A continuous op instead of two consecutive days makes a huge difference.

Yeah, Comanche's got a point there. It would make it much easier to be engulfed in the scenario. But to stress a point, I really, honestly think this would require everyone to have a radio. Without that, it will not be possible.

Yes, quite true. A prime example would be the WestCan series of events that happened in 2002 through 2004. The last Edmonton game started out with just over 100 players and the number that followed through to the next day was about 40 if I recall (or someone here can correct me).

It was over 150 to start. I think most were still there at the end. I think I have some group pictures still somewhere.

While there have been 24hr games in Canada (one or two a year), these are not for everyone. I've seen several players all hyped about 24hr games, then can't even pace themselves for a 10-12 hr one. Player who do well at these games are either experienced enough to know how to pace themselves and when to rest/sleep and/or military personnel who are conditioned for it.

If you are worried about the loss of a supply line / rear safe area, when the front falls an admin could signal via air horn. That way if any players had radio problems they would still know to suit up for action. Also for the storming a tent problem, would dummy grenades work?

I would not dream of discouraging someone from running something like this, but you need to take into account many things besides just the game. Planning it as a "regular game day, only longer and with porta-potties" would fall somewhat short.

The need for planning extends to the players, too. If you have trouble getting through a few hours in the field without needing a break to go back to your car for something, you might find it a challenge just to be in the bush all day (nevermind actually sleeping there).

In my experience: when it comes to long milsim-focused games everyone wants to try it, almost no one actually has the energy (or stones in some cases) to get through it.

But everyone should try it at least. It's a great [learning] experience and as mentioned, I wouldn't dream of discouraging anyone from planning or attending such an event.

As you already have contact with LT.Poncho, ask him about the OP:CT evets he ran back in the days. 26 hour events with organized on and off field sleeping areas. Each teams base was set up with people bringing their our tents etc, with a strick googles on at all times rule. The only time that your goggles could come off is while you were in your tent with the "door" zipped secure. Tents were not to be intentionally targeted by enemy fire, so goggles had to be worn while you were cooking, etc.

There was also the off field safe zone, which held the usual safe area rules such as barrel plugs on, mags out, etc... This allowed players a safe haven to relax and replenish their supplies that they did not want to drag out onto the field (spare rifles, parts, tech tools, coolers, spare clothes). Each "off field" safe zone was at oppisite ends of the field, which help keep intel on how many enemy forces (for example) were on or off the field off the record. During the second OP:CT, each base was set up with only one safe zone....the on field safe zone. This was a strick no fire zone, no shots in, no shots out. It worked, but with the large amount of new players getting into the sport, I'd advise avoiding this type of set up. The other problem with this set up was that we had to walk the entire length of the game field and right past the American base camp to get to our cars.

As for the potential night operations during these two events.....oh mann, just as RUGGER and Stuart about the incident with the night shift security detail guys whom Stu had provided NVGs to...what a laugh. Then there are the raids on the bases followed by morning radio calls from game command asking if we had "acquired and American equipment" through out the night. Boots, AEGs, and almost teh American flag were borrowed from right out of the American base. And then there were the Recce guys who took turns sleeping on overwatch of the enemy bases, the snipers such as Raven (team Bad Karma) who kept tabs on the comings and goings out of our base all night, reporting everything back to the American CO.

There is a lot of potential in a multipul day event, but you'd need to hold it on a very large field in order to keep it from turning into just a really long scrim.

SHA DO

"-Hey CO, do you know where our boots are?
-In the ennemy base.
-WTF?
-Guards were sleeping.
-OMFGIBTHOOT*"
*OMFGIBTHOOT = Oh My Fu*** God I'll Beat The Heck Out Of Them

Lol^^

One thing I'd add is strict camo rules. As not green vs desert, but something along the lines of ACU & MARPAT vs Russian Flora vs solid colors (PMC)...

The final group shot from Wescan 2004

http://i.pbase.com/u48/edmonton_airs...anDSC02266.JPG

Oh my god. Thats so epic

Dude....you have no idea!! Not to jack the thread, but the best was when Wildcard started cooking breakfast for the American forces. Poncho and Morb hopped on the radio, calling for an unscheduled 1 hour cease fire... so they can they can eat undisturbed.
We were like, WTF do you mean, cease fire!!.....as five of use crawl out from our hiding spots in side of the American base.
Oh mann...the looks. priceless...
The real annoying thing is that Wildcard was cooking them eggs and serloin for breakfast.....

SHA DO

In my experience most players don't last 8 hours let alone 24 hours without a break. At BWIII this year we go 8 hours non-stop and break for 3 hours to let it get dark for the night scenario which is another 3 to 4 hours. Shut down the op over night and start up the next day.

Last year at BWII I watched the players coming and going from the UN Safe Zone and after 4 hours people were dropping like flies on a flat wooded area like Harms Way. Imagine running up and down stairs for 8 hours at the Hospital in Picton carrying all your gear.

Now for those guys in the reserves and in good shape they can handle 24 to 36 hour of non-stop pounding but for the average airsofter a 24 hour non-stop game equals injuries especially knee and back.

Anyways just my two cents.

Thats awesome man. I can just see it in my head haha. I'm hoping something like this will go down. As for me, I need to get in a few games, to get the feel for it all before I hop on the bandwagon. Come to think of it, I need to buy some new Camo haha.

I was not at this game, but I saw all the pictures and eard about it. I was sad to miss it at the time, and I still remember it.

Agreed. LT.Poncho ran the senarios for OP:CT one and two, like a flow chart (whom ever won the last objective would set up the next objective down their side of the flow chart). He controlled the tempo of the game so there were several hours of enguagements on a couple of fronts which led to one big objective, then would give the team that one the objective a chance to rest up by defending the objective. Then the next mission would allow the other team to defend and rest up.
Lots of things going on during day light hours, and then slower, "optional", objective missions through out the evening. After dark was left to recce patrols and rogue units scrimming it out for control of strategic parts of the field, but no point based missions. This gave the rookies and noobs a chance to rest and recover for the following mornings' missions. Team sign up was set up so that there were set roles (garrison, recon, assault) and each of these units were also cycled so they could have a chance to rest if they wanted.

One of the keys to a longer event like two / three days would be to stagger missions/objectives and allow for optional "bonus point" missions through out the slow periods (time where the majority of the forces would be sleeping or eating), this way the vets or die hards could get in the extra field time that they are accustomed to (or to challenge themselves) with out running everyone ragged to the point of exhaustion (which a Krusty pointed out, leds to injury), and yet allow those noobs (or out of shape fellows like myself) to contribute to the point missions and potentially make a difference, but still enjoy the experience of the event.

The other big factor is for all the players to be prepared for something like this (the proper gear and kit), and don't push themselves beyond their limits.

SHA DO

That sounds really awesome! I like the idea of having different fronts and staging smaller battles in the down time, it would be interesting to see how long you could go for. I'm really interested in the night ops, to be honest, I think it would be alot of fun.

I'd be 100% down for something like this barring work schedule conflicts. I'm no vet on the field, it's true, but I think I should be able to manage. Went through all of Humanity's Hammer and BWII and was left wanting more at the end of the day. So you got at least one in for cadpat if you run with this :D

I personally think that one/two/three day events would be a blast. Perhaps have a series of smaller events stretched over the weeks/months leading up to the "big game". Sort of an ongoing game, I think if people knew that they were part of an ongoing "conflict" and that they could get in on the final big "end game" and the smaller games could even be used to slowly work up to a multi day event, start with a couple 8 hour games, then a 12 hour game, then build to the 24 or 48 hour games.

Now don't get me wrong I can see that this would be a planning nightmare. But a series of games would give groups time to learn to work together, squads and teams would grow out of the continued series of play. That and someone that might not be able to attend the "big day" could still participate by playing in some of the lead up days. If a running total of points were kept it may encourage people to come out to make sure there "team" stayed in the lead or to help bring them from behind.

I know this is a bit of a ramble, but its late and my body wont sleep (my brain seems to be napping, but the body is awake).

Hope that this made some sort of sense.

Most sense I've heard all day.

I agree with bryan on the whole if you hold the front you have a safe zone.

but i like the idea of this. screw this everyone sleeps time i want to take a team of the best sneakers and rush em while they sleep. (put post it notes saying your dead for when they wake up)

im in if it happens lmao

This makes a lot of sense, but I see one problem: while people from outside the area can work to travel to the field, they can't do this that for three, four, etc linked events.
Or, those "preparative" events could be some kind of "simultaneous" battles organised let's say at Rawdon, for eastern players, and another at *place a western field name* for western players.

Now again it's a nightmare for organisation, but a cooperation beteen two teams could make it quite feasible. But still hard.

From a Command standpoint
 

Managing resources over a long game would be a challenge

Pulling units out to force rest .. making sure everyone is fed and watered..

This coupled with the fact that commanding airsofters is like herding cats...

logistical.. battle managment worst case scenario

When do we go?

IMO, airsofters should be managed like the mujahadeen do. The commanders organise their missions with the jihad mindset: mujahadeen are there to shoot stuff, kill the infidel invaders and go home. Missions must have simple goals and releive must be ever present.

That, or go the opposit and enforce very strick rules for squads and commanders, to avoid people from wandering the field on their own, and the dead from respawning alone. I tried it in OP Backstab and it worked very very well. Locked squads with a chain of command. It worked all day for 99.9% of the players. (except for "Alpha-7"... that did not understand how a team work...)

The way I was thinking the "Preparative battles" would be encounters leading up to the main day. So that if you were not able to attend all the games it would not be an issue (other than the stress of missing a game you really really wanted to play in).

For example,

game #1 could be an 8 hour game in which red team and blue team battle to find pieces of a downed spy sat.

game #2 (a week or so later) another 8 hour game (maybe even on a different field) Red team and Blue team battle to control key positions on the field.

game #3 (once again a week or so later, at yet again the same or even yet another field) a 12 hour Game in which the team (Red or Blue) that managed to control the most positions from game #2 have to defend fixed positions against the other more mobile team.

game #4 (same time gap as previous) This is the BIG 24/48/72 Hour game.
Each teams base camps, respawn points, starting points, game "Props", what ever, are determined by the results of the previous games (with some fudging by the "creator of the game" to keep things some what fair). Information that was recovered from game 1 has an effect, results from the battles in games 2 and 3 also have an effect, on missions ran, points and missions from previous games have an effect on what each team can do.


If well planned each event would be a chapter in an on going story, and if you miss one you can still attend the other, or if you wish even switch sides to play on the opposite team. Fields could even run single skirmishes during a day/night of play, with the result being sent to the event organizers so even if you never make it to one of the "BIG" days of play you are still adding to the continuing story.

I come from a back ground of paper and pen role playing and have always enjoyed a continuing campaign, rather than just a series of non connected adventures.

Hope no one minds my ramble. And if anyone is interested in help with something like this PLEASE let me know, would be more than willing to lend what ever help I can.

Ian

Some very good ideas here, as well as some great info on what people are thinking in relation to longer scale games. So from what I can tell the majority are interested in a milisim game geared with lots of mission based operations and a continuing story line?