Airsoft and Painball Debate
 

I know this is a topic that has been discussed on many airsoft and paintball boards around the world. But I am curious why there seems to be such an animosity between airsoft and paintball players. I play both sports, but what I don't do is simply go out there in jeans and T-shirt and play spray and pray...I have no interest in that whatsoever. I have a group of friends that I play with regularly and we have invested a lot of time and money on our guns and gear many of us are in the military and whether we play airsoft or paintball we always observe authentic tactics used by military or LE operators. We play MILSIM and TACSIM, scenario and role playing games, many of the guys we play with come from a paintball background but have gotten frustrated by the speedball mentality of most players and wanted something more strategic and less childish.
But the fact is that, their are sloppy run and gun immature type players in both arenas but when it comes down to it both paintball and airsoft have more things in common than one would probably like to admit, so why cant we develop a mutual respect of each other? I am a bit older and I remember when most airsoft games were exactly like how paintball games are now.
Yet there are groups such as Stirling Airsoft in the UK who have integrated both airsoft and paintball into their groups and even play games using both simultaneously.

I'd like to hear your guy's opinions, but here is are the Pros and cons for me personally, though I play both sports when my friends and play paintball we describe it as an airsoft game played with paintball. I think a Quebec group called the Death Korp is a good representation of what kind of paintball I’m talking about. www.deathkorp.com.
Please try to keep hostile comments to a minimum, in the end wether airsoft of paintball is your chosen sport or both it’s JUST A GAME.

Airsoft:

Pros:

More mature like minded players
Guns look more real and there are more types to choose from
More cool gear
Not having to wear a full mask
Scenario/Role playing game play
Cost of BB’s is lower than paintballs
Not as messy
No hopper and remote lines


Cons

The honesty rule
Lack of recoil feeling of AEG
Electronic sound of AEG
Importation Restrictions


Paintball

Pros:

Guns are usually lauder
Looks cool when the CO2 “smoke” escapes the barrel
Hurts more and makes a mark when you are hit
(this is a good thing in my mind because it is more like Simmunition)
The bullets are a bigger
More accessible (no import restrictions yet)

Cons:

Messy
Typical paintball mentality is sloppy
Full Facemasks make it almost impossible to use your sights
Hoppers get in the way of your sights and look stupid
Lack of realism with ammo capacities
You don’t get the to experience the rush of changing mags
Most guns don’t look very real
Ammo can be expensive at fields
Remote lines are very restrictive
Speedball anything

Here are some pictures of our team.

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k4...llcatsERT2.jpg
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k4...erTeamcopy.jpg
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k4...MiguelSWAT.jpg
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k4...DSC01523-1.jpg

How many 16yr olds do you see with airsoft guns?
Most of us are very focused on maturity, and because theres no import laws for or against airsoft we have to be significantly more careful about what we do. Whereas some kid goes walking around downtown with a paintball gun and everyone goes "hey look, its a kid with a paintball gun", same kid is walking downtown with an airsoft gun, even with an orange tip, and the situation becomes "little Timmy Retard got shot by police officers yesterday...".

As for the lack of recoil and sound, you could always buy a gas airsoft gun, and gas pistols function exactly like the real steel.
As for the honesty rule, if they're not calling their hits consistently, it just means they want to get shot in the ear. And the same goes for paintball, I've heard from my friend quite a few times people don't call their hits if the paintball doesnt break when it hits them.

i like airsoft cause its more accurate and shoots farther than paintball on top of the other reasons that you mentioned. im just pissed that there is another Death Korp team out there. i wanted to start a team with that name =(

i didn't make this this is from our friend over at the warstore in NY.

http://www.thewarstore.org/Paintball.html

now i don't play paintball but I play airsoft at a lot of paintball feilds. 90% of the time the paintball players I see haven't had their balls drop, wouldn't understand the cost of playing a sport because their parents have larger wallets then brains and they are talking about how uber leet they are.
I have seen so many times on the paintball feilds a real lack of sportmanship, you see screaming and yelling leading to fistfights on youtube all the time ... that's crazy. I have seen arguements at airsoft but never a fight. Close but never
I know the majority of the guys I play with in airsoft are from the same stage in life, paying a mortgage and raising a family. I like the idea of like minded people playing together.

I also don't see the enjoyment of being put in a mesh cage with red and blue blow up obstacles throwing paint at each other while employeeing tactics that appear to be developed in the US civil war era.

Paint is for brushes not my kit.

this is an airsoft forum, airsoft wins, end of discussion

+1

Don't make me whip out the "Airsoft Vs. Paintball" page link...

How is "it hurts more" a pro? Honestly, if you're in this game to cause pain you're a sad little person.

I hope that when I get shot, it hurts so much I die! THAT WOULD ROCK!

do it and settle this aqua; I didn't have it bookmarked

For me the only pro of paintball is that it's so easy to get guns, but they are so ugly. If only airsoft in Canada was easier to get.

AIRSOFT VS. PAINTBALL - END OF STORY

http://www.pozland.com/avp

As far as I know most PB field rules include if the ball does not break it is not a hit dumb i think but those are the breaks or not breaks but even when they do break some people will try and wipe off the paint or try to pass it off as splatter from a wall or another player but a facial will usually fix that.
I have not had many problems with people calling hit in airsoft and when I have a hit or 5 on full auto on a "soft spot" ie:neck, hand, ear, or any exposed skin or tight fitting clothing say at the thigh will usually result in a "owe f**k hit!... HIT!" and a change of attitude if the problem persist talking to the host can usaly help as well probably should do these in the opposite order but in the heat of battle what can you do.






*

I didn't play much paintball. Never liked it much. Airsoft is SOOO much better.

In your first post, you say that the Honesty Rule in airsoft is a 'Con'? I have to ask... why is it a problem to be honest and admit being hit?
Or do you think that those who dont admit it are never noticed?

/thread

the only idea i like about paint ball is the mark it leaves when you shoot someone, other then that i'd just go with airsoft.

Paintball is only good to introduce friends to the shooter type games (not video, but real life). Then after they complain about what they hated, all I have to say is "there's something better, it's called airsoft".

If Grey hadn't said something about that, I'd have. I don't have a problem with PB (other than certain aestetics aspects), I've got a problem with the attitude of certainly PBers. Basically the ones that turn their nose at us when they find out that airsoft is based on the honour system.

One Con about airsoft, is with all the gear we wear sometimes, you may not notice getting hit while running. That's the benefit of having a harder hitting projectile.

That picture of the guy with the 101 attachments on, well, every square inch of his gun was priceless. The swiss army knife on the barrel was just the icing on the cake. :D

That is always a pain, when you have to stop and think "Hmm, was that hit? Or did I run into a twig . . ."

I've also run into things like rock, which felt like a hit, called "Hit!" and realized that there is no one even near me . . .
:banghead:

They're similar but different games, with enough of both similaries and differences in game dynamics to appeal to a wide variety of player demographics. Play what you like, ignore the rest. What's with big deal - is it the in thing to hate on stuff publicly?

AMEN

The cake is a lie!

Dude... way off topic.

But is the cake a delicious lie?

I was turned away from paint ball when parents started sending their kids to flag raiders for birthday paint ball games.

Well I used to play on a paintball team. At that point airsoft wasn't so widely known in my area though there were a few here and there who played. I always wanted to try it but just never got around to it. Then the team I played for went from bush ball to speed ball. Eventually I got sick and tired of seeing my paycheck go into a rubber inflatable bunker for no reason other than to maybe just maybe hit one guy or provide a little cover fire. I then started to look into airsoft and eventually got the proper info and picked up my first rifle. First game my god what a difference in the attitude of the players and the pace of the games. I like military style games that actually employ some sort of tactic other than pray and spray. Being in the military made airsoft very exciting. I might play the odd paintball game with my friends if they get a group together and need an extra but other than that I can't see myself playing paintball much.

The pro's cons list:

Airsoft Pro's

The players who play have better maturity level and way better sportsmanship
The rifles
The realism
Milsims are better
Mag Changes
Costs are way better once you own the gear
The honor system, if they don't call hit when they should shoot them till they call hit or cry, but that rarely ever happens and in most games I play we are our own refs we don't need someone to call anyone out and when in doubt call hit. I took one off the rifle one game and it happened to be center of mass and didn't know buddy who shot me told me and I called hit plain and simple. I played paintball with a guy who wore such bulkly clothing that you'd be lucky to break a ball on him, that and he wiped his paint by the time the ref got to him. I wanted to knock his teeth in.(sorry for the explanation figured I'd give my view of why it's a pro.)
The 18+ rule goes along with maturity
And airsoft does hurt if you get hit in the right place as much as paintball, my wife put two welts on me with a G36c that stayed for about two weeks, my fault for volunteering to be her first victim lol.
My wife loves to play airsoft with me (so I can get as many rifles as I want and don't have to explain it)

Cons

Rifle accessibility, but you can still basically get what you want in Canada it may just take a bit and cost a little more.


Paintball Pros

No idea after having played it for 6/7 years
recoil maybe, but it's minimal.

Paintball cons

It's paintball
Cost of Paint
Co2 lines, or tanks
Hoppers
Markers
Masks
Wife hates paintball
The mess
SPEED BALL

quoted for truth except the wife thing...

See, it's a proven fact that pain is the best teacher, and when your body registers pain it tells your brain that you don't want to be doing that again. Have you considered how much simunition FX rounds hurt even with all the protective gear? And this is what the military and LE agencies train with. Yes, they are marking rounds similar to paintball, except that they are propelled by a primer similar to a regular bullet, and it is fired from a real gun which has been modified to chamber the FX rounds.

I am all for realism, if i could train regularly with siminition I would.
I am also not a big fan of hi caps or hoppers unless you are a SAW gunner.

I love the realistic look airsoft but the marking capability and sound of a paintball gun with the shell ejection of feature of the real deal....

check out www.rap4.com

Sometimes when I read post like these I wonder whether the person(s) who ever posted paintball sucks, airsoft rules post even stop to think where they were or what they were doing when they first saw an airsoft game. I Mean Guys we are all playing the same game here the only difference is our projectile and the markers we use. if you look at the similarities between paintball and airsoft, stop, and think to your self you'll laugh at these post too(My source of entertainment at work)
It was not too long ago that guys like poncho or crow from team STAT were lugging around c02 tanks for their JAC or Y&E rifle and how everyone at that time thought it was cool, then there was the time where the most hicaps and 450+fps rifle were the norm. Every game whether it's airsoft or paintball evolve, paintball got their start in the woods and now majority of the paintball game is going back to woodsball or milsim type of game.

I recently got the pleasure of participating in a weekend long milsim game, operation "Irene" in a big field in Syracuse, in that field there were 456 participants and there was not once any type of argument or bad comments made about airsoft VS paintball in fact what suprised me was the organizers of this game have their own airsoft team and actually ran a field north of where we were playing where only airsoft are played, When I asked him how come he didn't organize an airsoft game like this instead of RAP4 or paintball only, His only answer was that this (RAP4/Paintball) was more realistic, Airsoft can only bring a certain level of realism but this take it to the next level. where have you played in an airsoft game where there is a fireable .50 cal, .30 cal and tanks (Paintball version).

For me it does not matter whether it's paintball or airsoft I just enjoy the game, the debate of who is better, to me is childish and a waste of time i rather be shooting instead.

You could'nt have said it better..it's like you took the words right out of my mouth man, thank you!!!

I was hopeing that someone would come to this same conclusion, which is whay I posted this. It's kinda like with organized religeon, what turned me off the most about it is that everyone thinks that thier religeon is the ONLY TRUE way, and so so many wars are waged over this type of small mindedness. Fact is if we concentrated on all we have in common instead of our diffrences one would see that we are all actually trying to reach the same goal.

I for one love both airsoft and paintball equally, and I feel that both sports can learn and grow better if they join hands and help each other out, each has things to bring to the table as for stegnths and weeknesses.

Wildcard's comment only renforces the level of maturity that cetrain members of the airsoft community..Thank you for that. I am gald find myslef among kindred spirts here.

That does happen, but it is thankfully rarely done on purpose. When the 'target' notices or gets told they promptly admit it, or err on the side of caution. It's not as if you cant play again in a short while.
Those who do ignore it on purpose tend to not play this game for very long.

There's no debate. Paintball is fucking gay. Paintballers are fucking gay.
Only a buttfiend would want to play a game that leaves you covered in what looks like neon splooj.

I love the amount of randomness and hatred that is used when the word gay is tossed around. Im by far not gay but I would likely be annoyed with its usage here. Paints a really good picture of maturity.

As for paintball I quit because I wanted to go back to airsoft. I disliked the people who played regularly here. If you get a good group of people to play woods ball with its really fun. The new tacti"cool" markers they have out today are a step ahead.

At first I was like oh look a Pball pistol that actually looks like a real one
http://rap4.com/images/p226_le.jpg


And then I was like.... wait what the hell is that for?
http://rap4.com/images/rap226/RAP226...tor_Bottom.jpg

And then..... Oh dear god NO!
http://rap4.com/images/rap226/P226_w...ge_Adaptor.jpg

Replace that attachment with an external rig and you have a lot of classic airsoft guns

Hnn, for me, the enjoyability of either sport really depended on the crowd I'm currently with.

Somedays you'll have everyone co-operating and going out with some sort of tactical plan, other days you'll have no co-ordination, everyone doing their own thing and waiting till break to look pretty standing around or to pose for pictures.

It's honestly a mix of player mentalities here. I could have more fun playing paintball with a bunch of people wearing jerseys and pink markers, than playing with airsofters who are too afraid to get a little dirt on their pants, the same could be said in reverse, don't get me wrong.

Concerning airsoft and paintballs raw content alone, I'd most definitely side with airsoft, minus the difficulty attaining them.

My reason however is almost solely based on the appearance of the weapons, which in itself, is almost possessing degenerating mentality to the players who are apart of the sport. Airsofts realistic appearance appeal alone almost seems to give birth to "chairsofters". Which tends to result in the lack of enjoyment from certain games I have attended where the airsofters were undermined by the chairsofters, or people who just seemed to be there for photoshoots.

As for the maturity of the crowd, airsofts crowd in a sense is more "mature" almost solely based on the age restrictions of those who can attain the guns, which in a good thing. If paintball were as restricted to age like airsoft, you'd see the same thing there as well.

Just trying to bring out some balance here though, I can't help but feel obvious vibes of biases, but better here than in a paintball forum, because you don't find many ex-airsofters who turned paintball, at least some people here have actual paintball experience.

Though when it comes to the paintball experience there Rockafella I haven't tried what you guys do so my comments are strictly on what I've experienced from when I was playing. When I quit the electronic guns were just beginning to come out and become main stream, had I experienced your style of paintball I might have stuck with it a little longer but in the end I would still have crossed over to airsoft. Though I probably would have kept my paintball guns for the odd game instead of selling them for scrap and parts. You guys look like you got some good things going best of luck with it. And might see you in an airsoft match here or there on the island somday.

Just to calrify for those who may look at this picture and not sure what they are looking at. This is a RAP4 Sig 226, it comes in two versions internal air (pictured here) and the disposable air version. The 3rd of those pictures shows a CO2 bottle attached to the bottom of the gun, one would not play with that ugly thing hanging off of the pistol (although i guess you could) what is being don there is filling the pisol's internal tank that is hidden within the pistol grip next, to where the magazine is inserted. After the ineternal tank is full you would take unskerew the tank which has the adapter and you not be ablt to tell it from a real gun. In the other version would just take the disposable 12grm Co2 cartrages and inster it into the "holding tank" instead of being filled via the larger CO2 tank. It would use one 12gram cartrage hidden in the grip per 3-5 mags.
So once the pistol is charged and loaded it looks just like an airsoft gun and the blowback is amazingly strong.

Except that airsoft is neither military or law enforcement and simunition is used for the closeness to realism and NOT because it causes pain.

Do me a favour, let me know when you're on the field out here so I can make it a point to not bothering to show up to it when you're there. I'd like to have as little as possible to do with someone who seems to enjoy causing pain to others. :smack:

Actually it is used due to the pain and for closeness to realism. They want the round to behave like a real one but also cause you pain so that you can learn from mistakes. I know I got to shoot lots of people on course with them.

I was kind of skeptical when I first saw these RAP4 but after playing with them with a bunch of guys out in FT McMurray I was hooked, Finally a marker that can take any punishment I dish out on it and after doing a little research on it I discovered that some of my friends out in H.K and in the Phillipines Have been playing with them for some years now and ALL of them gave the RAP4 METS a glowing review and the fact that these guys can almost get anything they want their review counts more than any review board.

I've own JAC, AEG and pretty much All of the WA, maruzen and Tanaka Blowback, as real or these "guns" get they are still the fragile and durability issue to these guns, I mean there is probably no one out there as rough with their guns especially their AEG or blowback than myself, guys like Poncho can be a witness to how many mechbox that have met their doom in my hands and the countless metal bodies from Zeke, Systema to the old and sturdy CA,
Unfortunately for the paintball bashers out there these RAP4 markers are made to last longer than your average aeg, and when I do play with them it sort of brings back some good old feelings like the time when we are playing with our JAC back in the days.

Oye Wildcard, pinoy ka ba?

Yeah, the other thing I love about these guns is that they were actually originally manufactured by the a factory commisioned by the PRC to make a effective yet affordable taining sim for thier Mil forces to train with. And as such they are being used in training by over 50 law enforcement and Military agencies globally. And since the only reason I play airsoft/paintball is to augment my military training (CF infantry) this as close as I can get to the real deal, at least when we're not prcticing w/ sims at Wighnwright.

You with the C-Scots?

Seconded.
Nuff said =P

Paintball

Pros:

Guns are usually lauder
Looks cool when the CO2 “smoke” escapes the barrel <-- Not that big a deal
Hurts more and makes a mark when you are hit <----- being shot in the throat with a bb vs a paint filled ball.... the bb hurts ALOT more like that
(this is a good thing in my mind because it is more like Simmunition)
The bullets are a bigger <---- less chance for the new guy to miss?
More accessible (no import restrictions yet) <--- fair enough yet I prefer a harder to get gun then a really ugly looking one personally. (just an opinion)

IF airsoft in Canada was more prevalent, I would be playing it more than paintball. It doesnt help that airsoft imports are illegal and there are, what, less than 5 online Candian retailers? I can drive to the nearest paintball store in a few minutes.

That website that was posted "http://www.pozland.com/avp" was biased garbage. The fact is both games have their pros and cons.

-The only big difference between the two in Canada is the cost vs abundance issue. Airsoft is cheaper, but where am I going to go to play it? Paintball is everywhere, Ontario alone has close to 100 established fields, but it is really, really expensive.

-As long as you are playing with good people, it doesnt matter if a gun will leave a paint mark or not, people will call themselves out when hit. Refuse to play with dishonest players. (As a side note though, I find few things more satisfying than a burst of paintballs breaking on your intended target)

-Both have the bad side to the community (and quite frankly, I prefer the little paintballing kids over the idiot that thinks he is ready for WWIII because he commands a team in "airsoft training simulations")

-You want smoke, noise and recoil? Buy a real firearm. Neither paintball or airsoft is realistic, they arent even close.

-The OP's point about paintball being messy is rediculous. They have these things called showers now, he should give them a try. You are going to get dirty or sweaty in any sport.

"..few things more satisfying than a burst of paintballs breaking on your intended target" - I'm with ya there man, especially when you're useing red paintballs as we do, it looks like blood. -It's one thing to hit a guy w/ BB's and know you hit him, and another thing to hit someone with a marking round (simunition or paintball) and both KNOW you got him. And the conversations that happen in the safe zone after someone who just got lit up walks in..nuff said.

"...You want smoke, noise and recoil? Buy a real firearm. Neither paintball or airsoft is realistic, they arent even close" True, but most people who play airsoft (at least i speak for myself) play it for the tactical gameplay and simulated 'real' scenarios. Enless you're in the military or LE agancy, you probably will never get to experience true tactical training. There's only so much you can learn from shooting inanimate targets which is why almost all Military and Lawenforcement agencys parctice "force on force training" using simmunition, MILES, or other simmilar tools.

"Airsoft/Paintball - like a video game only the graphics are better."


"The OP's point about paintball being messy is rediculous. They have these things called showers now, he should give them a try. You are going to get dirty or sweaty in any sport." - one thing I find that seems to be too common among many strictly airsoft players (I don't mean to stereo type) is that they spend too much time trying to look pretty and clean. Yes the look is important to me too, you'll never see me wearing any mismatched, or poorly chosen gear, but I'm deffinately not afraid to get a little dirty (the dirtier the better). I mean when you're an actual OP you have more things to worry about than how clean your Tac vest or ACU is. What do you think would happen if a DELTA OP refused to participate in CQB training because he says that the FX (simunition) round will make his uniform dirty? Rediculous right?


( Now just to get everyone back into perspective; I'm not saying eiether sport is better each have their merits/demerits but--- wether it's paintball or airsoft or both, this is a free country, and ultimately this is just a game so lets not get our underwear in a bunch of somthing so trivial, I appriciate all your comments and for shareing your opinions but remember that's all that it is; 'your opinion'. more gaming, less talking)

ORIGINS
 

ORIGINS:

Airsoft:
reffrence: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classic_airsoft

Despite misconceptions that airsoft originated much later, it was actually first played in the late 1970s, stemming from the concept of realistic-looking guns that shot non-lethal projectiles for sporting and simulation purposes. There were guns of this style before airsoft, such as the Mattel "Shootin' Shell" guns of the late 1950s. The US military even tinkered with ideas of this type after World War II. The BB guns that existed before shot metal BBs that could do a lot of damage to a person and in rare cases, kill them. Mattel's guns were a novelty at best though.

Airsoft filled a void. It originated in Japan, where owning real guns was generally illegal. The first manufacturers were long-standing toy companies such as Masudaya, Fujimi, and Matsushiro. These companies decided it would be a good (and profitable) idea to market BB guns that could be safely shot at others in a similar manner to paintball guns, which were also becoming popular at that time. These guns were spring-powered, single-shot weapons and were often very crude in nature. Many used odd, proprietary ammunition, such as the 7mm "Long Range" ammo some Masudaya guns used, or the soft rubber ammo used in TradeMark's guns. Eventually, it was realized that a standard-size round BB would be cheaper and more efficient to produce. There were a variety of companies making guns during the late 1970s and early 1980s.

The Daisy company had been known for over a century as the premiere producer of BB guns in the US. So in the early 80s, they decided to market airsoft in North America. Up until that time, airsoft was virtually unheard of outside of Japan. Daisy contracted the Maruzen company of Japan to manufacture a line of spring-powered guns to sell in the US. Most of these guns already existed in Japan and were essentially re-packaged for sale in North America. These guns used special BBs loaded into simulated shell casings.

All models were manufactured by Maruzen except the Model 15 H&K MP5K, which was made by Falcon Toy Corp.

These guns were as realistic in appearance as an airsoft or model gun had been up until this point, and many anti-gun and anti-violence organizations showed disfavor towards these items in America.

Airsoft guns: http://www.lonestarairsoft.com/forum...499airsoft.jpg

(Vote Conservative!! or Republican if you're American - to preserve our rights!!)

Paintball
refference:

The first paintballs were created by the Nelson Paint Company in the 1950s for forestry service use in marking trees from a distance, and were also used by cattlemen to mark cows.[2] Two decades later, paintballs were used in a survival game between two friends in the woods of Henniker, New Hampshire, and paintball as a sport was born.

In 1976, Hayes Noel, a stock trader, Bob Gurnsey, and his friend Charles Gaines, a writer[3], were walking home and chatting about Gaines' recent trip to Africa and his experiences hunting buffalo. Eager to recreate the adrenaline rush that came with the thrill of the hunt, and inspired by Richard Connell's The Most Dangerous Game, the two friends came up with the idea to create a game where they could stalk and hunt each other.[4]

In the ensuing months, the friends talked about what sorts of qualities and characteristics made for a good hunter and survivalist. They were stumped, however, on how to devise a test of those skills. It wasn't until a year and a half later that George Butler, a friend of theirs, showed them a paintball gun in an agricultural catalog. The gun was a Nelspot 007 marker manufactured by the Nelson Paint Company.[5]

Twelve players competed against each other with Nelspot 007s pistols in the first paintball game on June 27, 1981. They were: Bob Jones, a novelist and staff writer for Sports Illustrated and an experienced hunter, Ronnie Simpkins, a farmer from Alabama and a master turkey hunter, Jerome Gary, a New York film producer, Carl Sandquist, a New Hampshire contracting estimator, Ritchie White, the New Hampshire forester, Ken Barrett, a New York venturer and hunter, Joe Drinon, a stock-broker and former Golden Gloves boxer from New Hampshire, Bob Carlson, a trauma surgeon and hunter from Alabama, and Lionel Atwill, a writer for Sports Afield, a hunter and a Vietnam vet, Charles Gaines, Bob Gurnsey, and Hayes Noel. The game was capture the flag on an 80 acre wooded cross-country ski area.

Thereafter, the friends devised basic rules for the game fashioned along the lines of capture the flag, and invited friends and a writer from Sports Illustrated to play. They called their game "Survival," and an article about the game was published in the June 1980 issue of Sports Illustrated.[6] As national interest in the game steadily built, Bob Gurnsey formed a company, National Survival Game, and entered a contract with Nelson Paint Company to be the sole distributor of their paintball equipment.[7] Thereafter, they licensed to franchisees in other states the right to sell their guns, paint, and goggles. As a result of their monopoly on equipment, they turned a profit in only six months.[8]

The first games of paintball were very different from modern paintball games. Nelspot pistols were the only gun available. They used 12-gram CO2 cartridges, held at most 10 rounds, and had to be tilted to roll the ball into the chamber and then recocked after each shot. Dedicated paintball masks had not yet been created, so players wore shop glasses that left the rest of their faces exposed. The first paintballs were oil-based and thus not water soluble; "turpentine parties" were common after a day of play.[9] Games often lasted for hours as players stalked each other, and since each player had only a limited number of rounds, shooting was rare.[10]

Between 1981 and 1983, rival manufacturers such as PMI began to create competing products, and it was during those years that the sport took off.[11] Paintball technology gradually developed as manufacturers added a front-mounted pump in order to make recocking easier, then replaced the 12-gram cartridges with larger air tanks, commonly referred to as "constant air".[12] These basic innovations were later followed by gravity feed hoppers and 45-degree elbows to facilitate loading from the hopper.[13]


The new age of paintball guns: http://rap4.com/paintball_news/image...rap5_rap17.jpg

It's not that I hate getting dirty, it's I dislike having to clean paint out of my gear and weapons after a day of playing, because as you well know it takes a long time to clean it properly, especially if you get shot in the rifle or the ball explodes in the rifle, got tired of that after a while. I get just as dirty playing airsoft as I do on a field ex with the army. And I still see some of our guys running around with simunition marks on their tact vests when I'm at work lol. But I wouldn't mind having an experience with the Rap4 stuff just for shits'n giggles though. I'm fairly open minded and you right in the end it's an oppinion and just a game. For me it comes down to cost and personal preference nothing more nothing less.

cleaning paint by far beat out cleaning bb's from your hair or scalp because of some noob got trigger happy or got a nervous reaction when mercied. Like I said all these bitching about who is better is pointless we are all playing the same game so SHUT UP!, Enjoy and GAME ON!!!

A video of the next geeration of paintball gameing:

Rap4 airsoft/paintball video

YouTube - NZTGA Whiskey Team CQB RAP4 RAM ACTION

YouTube - RAP4 Mil-Sim paintball marker

^^^ what is it? its not airsoft...its not paintball either

edit: nvm i watched the 2nd vid now forget i said nething lol

This forum is so biased... but didn't expect any better =)

Is there a conversion to not use the airfin BBs and just use normal BBs without the ejecting shells?

I'm guessing you take all your rap4 guns in the shower with you after a nice long day getting shot by paintballs and getting paint all over inside and out of your gun.

You get dirty just playing around. The amount of paint you get is quite minor considering how much dirt you get on yourself when you prone down.

If you are scared of getting dirty, you shouldn't be playing these kind of games anyways, stop whining, jesus, be a man.

I'm pretty damn sure you guys have shower and laundry at your house, so stop making "Getting dirty" as an excuse to hate paintball.

There is a difference between cleaning 'dirt' off ya gear and bdu's, and having to clean the smeg remains from paintballs off your gear, weapons and equipment.
And I wouldnt use the words 'excuse to hate paintball'.

It has been said, at the end of the day its all about personal choice, you can either play airsoft OR paintball OR a variation of the two. Its your choice.
Frankly I am somewhat, for lack of a better word, confused as to why this is even on here. Last time I checked it was Airsoft Canada, not Paintball Canada. I am sure the two sports have aspects that are very similar, but this is airsoft. If I wanted to go and read about paintball I wouldnt be on this forum.

I may be a little wrong here by saying this but what harm are they to anybody? they can be imported legally I might add. I'm interested in the guns. Afterall I play for the Milsim and Tacsim aspect and not because its air soft, yes air soft guns look real and thats what got me into the sport in the first place. Now think about this for a moment... we can still simulate combat or tactical situations using realistic looking weapons.It only took a few idiots to ruin the chances of the rest of us being able to import air soft because they were brandishing and playing with them in the public eye. I say lets not make war debating whether this is an air soft forum or a paintball forum and just make it a Milsim/Tacsim forum. I say give these weapons a chance and who knows we might just see them turning up at more and more games.

I'm sorry If anyone was offended by this post,. I'm just interested to hear the different opinions everyone had about each sport. Ultimately I'm into the MILSIM aspect of things regardless of what tools are being used. I love both Paintball and airsoft, God knows I spend enough money on it (just see my bank transactions), I used to only play airsoft, and had no interest whatsoever in paintball because of how the guns look and because of the type of mentality that most paintballer I've seen. (Mostly Speedball) until I came accorss the RAP4 markers, now I can play paintball with my freinds that do it, and play airsoft which i love without haveing to have different guns fore each but, mostly it was the sell ejection and the more realsitc sound compared to an AEG that sold me. I want to play MILSIM/TACSIM, I thought that that ultimately what airsoft is about.

I'm not trying to establish that one is better than the other, nor am I trying to convince anyone of anything other than that I'm happy that paintballers seem to finally be comming around and doing things right by going toward a more MILSIM game style.

Although this is an airsoft forum I don't think opening a discussion like this violates any rules. It's just like asking someone what do you think about Terminator 2 and Rambo..to each his own but one does'nt need to be better than the other. Don't get so defensive.

That why I did'nt say "PAINTBALL vs. AIRSOFT."

.. The "recoil" on those things are pathetic... Looks just the same as the piston in my M14 slamming forward..

i've recently updated this page with a detailed cost analysis comparing the annual costs to play both sports.

I looked at warchilds analysis and could not believe the diference in price between the two sports, airsoft is alot cheaper and less maint. for the guns

OK I have to get some things off my chest here because there seems to be way too much bitching,whinning,complaining and disrespect found on this forum. Am I really hearing this right? "This is an Air soft forum paintball and even clearsoft dont belong here". I can't belive what i'm hearing. I can personally say with pride that I own 4 of your supposed shitsoft guns. I painted them to look real and I started playing airsoft with friends. I found that yes even though their range and power can't compete with the higher end guns,but we have to start somewhere. I bet everybodys first car wasn't a LAMBO its a car we all want but we bought a civic because thats what we could afford in the begining.I now own the following guns M4 S-system,FAMAS,G3 Sniper rifle and USP 45 GBB. So yes we all start somewhere. Me it was"shitsoft" lets all leave the poor noob bastards the fuck alone,given the chance they very well might turn out to be the best players around given that you havn't turned them away from the sport with your rude comments that I can only expect from my 4 and 5 year old boys.

Might want to edit that page. Airsoft has been around longer than 10 years. I myself own a couple of guns made in 1986, 1985 and when was originally teaching english, had some students who had been playing airsoft with spring operated rifles and pistols back in '83.

BTW - That gun on the second last page of your airsoft Vs paintball you put up, is a Kar98 held by Kingster.

In the extreme long run (over a couple of years) airsoft will be cheaper... Only problem is the Canadian gun prices... that doesn't mix well with the airsoft bug...

I can barely hold 500 bucks in my hand before thinking "Hrrrm what gun next"

"This is an Air soft forum paintball and even clearsoft dont belong here".

I would be the first to disagree with that flame, as you do also. I have always been open minded when it comes to other sports that are in line with airsoft, whether it be paintball or whatever. I am 100% right behind you when you say we all have to start somewhere. I couldnt agree more.

What I do have a problem with is a thread that has hashed, rehashed, and hashed yet again the same comments from an ASC member regarding paintball and the weapons they use.

I get it!!! The weapons the ASCer is selling may be used for airsoft. Thats fine. But when he says also he DOES NOT supply the conversions kits, then to me he is trying to sell off and 'drum up' business for his paintball markers. Hence my comments regarding this being an airsoft forum. If he truely intended his weapons to be used for airsoft, sell the whole lot, including the conversion kit.

Whatever someone wants to play, thats fine. Using your vehicle subject comparison, I wont go onto a Ford Forum and ask what people think of a 65 Fastback vs a 69 Camaro.

If we want to discuss the merits, pro's and cons of the associated sports similiar to airsoft that is fine. Dont make this into a business venture.

I don't consider that to be a flame. It's not an attack on anyone personal, it's simply the truth. If you go to a BMW forum and start trying to compare your Honda Civic to a BMW, then you'll have to expect to be unwelcome. There is no paintball and airsoft debate... they are DIFFERENT games, get over it.

you t3h man.

that pretty much sums it up. thread over?

Sport
 

In the end whatever sport gives you the most fun is all that is important. To each their own ... lol

Whatever sport is the most fun to me? Well thats gotta be tonsil hockey, then airsoft, then tonsil hockey again.

for me it goes tonsil hockey, airsoft then pocket pool...

..

+2

+1

people are biased on their cars or what they are passionate for. In this case we are all biased on airsoft or else why would we be on an airsoft forum instead of paintball forums?

if one went to a paintball forum and started to a thread like this the outcome would be paintball > airsoft.

From what I read of this thread, the op didn't start this thread to get an opinion on Paintball and Airsoft, he started this thread to drum up business for his paintball business...
If he really wanted to hear our opinion he wouldn't have mentioned he sold the RAP4 gear and the other paintball gear he preached about. How can he have an open opinion to this debate with his invested interest in paintball, simple, HE CAN'T!!
My guess about the OP, he has never played airsoft, if he has I bet no more then he stepped onto a field once, so he got a bit of a taste but not much.

Man over half the people here must be in denial airsoft is a dying sport. Almost all of those articles are comparing guns that would cost 700 here to the worlds most primitive low end paintball guns that cost under 100. Do you see airsoft on tv anywhere? No, but in the US they regularly play paintball on tv and even sometimes in Canada.

Also all of these articles are comparing the now dead paintball form of woodsball to airsoft. Basically, every woodsballer out there is now a speedballer who still plays woodsball for fun.

Even one article cited girls as part as airsoft. That has to be the biggest joke ever. There are all girls competitive paintball teams. Infact, 15% of all active paintball players are girls. It's completely normal to go a field and see a bunch of girls out. Now what percentage of active airsofters are girls?

http://www.comkart.com/php-bin/galle...girlplay34.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...59261148_l.jpg

Man I could go on for ever and ever and ever

Also paintball is completely owning airsoft in popularity. In 1998, 5.9 million played, by 2003, 10.5 million. In 2010, there will be over 20 million paintballers.


Oh ya who can forget the event statistics. Over 30,000 people showed up to this years paintball world cup and over 300 teams.
YouTube - paintball world cup 2007 - Intro This is just an intro to show the atmosphere of the world cup.


YouTube - Paintballing - Watch the crowds in the background. Ever see that many people out just to watch and not play?

YouTube - paintballing championship - Tournament broadcasted by ESPN. Played in a vegas casino, main purpose was only for tv.

20 Million?
Yea well, in 2050, there will be 50 billion ants stealing my grass. Suck on that randomly made up statistic mother-fucker!
http://123child.com/images/fingerprints/ant.jpg

May I remind you that popularity does not amount to superiority?

Anyway, I've played paintball for 2 years. Had some nice guns. Quit, because there were too many people who thought cheating was the only way to win...

And I don't go to airsoft games to meet girls... I could care less, really.

airsoft isnt a dieing sport, are you stupid. its a growing sport and it took paintball 20 years to become popular, airsoft has only been in canada and the USA for 10 at most.

so basically stfu and go back into that hole you call a paintball forum.

Reminding me of that. IN EVERY FORM OF PAINTBALL EVER INVENTED PLAYED ON THIS PLANET, A BOUNCE IS NOT A HIT. THE BALL MUST POP That's for some other guy that sais "ohhh too many people in paintball don't call themselves out when it bounces off them". Anyways it's nearly impossible to get away with cheating unless you play woodsball, or at a field with no reffs. Just watch pros play on video, you'll see reffs running around everywhere calling penalties, pulling players and checking them for paint.

See you're in denial. The paintballer population is almost doubling ever couple years, while look at the airsoft one around here.... The only paintball around 20 years ago was a pistol, designed for tagging cows. Some people decided to begin shooting them at each other for fun. Here in Canada, airsoft guns have insane markups for duties and almost everything has to be purchased online. While nearly every city with more than 1 person has a field and a paintball shop.


I don't see airsoft prices going down, more shops opening and there aren't very many fields.

so is woodsball a bad thing now too? because that is the only type of paintball i play ( it has more inconveniences ( branches and stuff blocking a shot) than speedball, but it is more fun.

Dude, your logical reasoning skills are really lacking.

Unless you are in highschool popularity is not the marker of superiority or greatness.

Michael Jackson's album "Thriller" is one of the highest selling albums of all times, are you suggesting it is one of the greatest? Better than perhaps Wagner?

Things that are popular are designed for the lowest common denominator. Just like speedball. I have no interest in being part of the lowest common denominator.

Girls? Well I'm all for girls in Airsoft, but I played football for 16 years and the lack of girls never made a negative impact on that sport.

Quality of life and sport is not a numbers game. Count the number of Hondas you see next time you go out for a drive and then count the number of Porsches. By your criteria Hondas are superior. I'm not convinced. I'd much prefer to drive the Porsche.

So feel free to wander back to the caf. and see who is more popular today. I hear that new Britiney album is selling rather well.

Ld

People don't want paintball to be a war game, so speedball was invented. Big colourful ballons, bright jerseys and guns that look nothing like real guns. Not to mention it's way harder to make a woodsball field than a speedball one. Major tournaments carry their fields around with them like the PSP and NPPL, while it's not easy to move a whole forest.

Thriller is one of the greatest albums ever... People still do the dance and know the songs...

Girls love guys who play football...

You must remember though, if something doesn't sell, it does. Sure it could be better, but how does it stay alive and expand if no one buys into it? Only reason why expensive car companies are still in business is that rich people will buy a bunch of them and people who want to look special lease them, then get screwed over and end up becoming a hobo. In airsoft, there are no leases and not many rich people buying a tonne of guns.

However there are the california paintball gun whores who switch 1000$ guns like every month and buy all new gear every year.

desert storm just look at the people joining that are cause the sport to "double" who the fuck wants to be playing with kids that have yet to have their balls drop.

also the fact you need a referee for those games giving penalitys and checking for paint is proof that they are cheating, i dont get your point, is that supposed to tell us how they dont cheat?

personally i dont mind paintball ill go every so often with friends or family, but yes id like to say that airsoft is a world of better

Well, you see, that's what I find stupid. If you're hit, you're hit. Who the fuck cares if it didn't pop? :p

Also, being a condiscending prick isn't very nice. So, please, leave the arm-chair commando bullshit out.

Imagine how many arguments would break out if a bounce counted as a hit.

You start skiing young, you stary playing soccer young, you start baseball young, you start paintball young. Airsoft only starts when you're 18, that cuts out many potential players.

In hockey you have penalties, same with soccer and every other sport. In paintball they penalize you just as bad too. If you are hit in an obvious spot and continue shooting, they pull you out and another player on your team. In a 5 vs 5 game, makes a big difference.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...59261148_l.jpg

She needs tone down the eyeliner just a tad.

That aside, this is an airsoft forum, where we promote airsoft. That is not to say there are not paintballers here, or not to say that people who enjoy airsoft, dont also enjoy paintball.

Airsoft isnt a dying sport. Its very popular in Japan and the USA, unfortunetly for us in Canada due to our grey laws in regards to airsoft guns, its hard for it to be popular as guns themselfves can be pricey to procure.

i know alot of people who love paintball because its a "war game"
and tell me how speedball isnt a war game because when you have 2 opposing teams skirmishing i would call that a war like situation.

alot of girls love guys period. just because they like football players still doesnt mean they play.

major tournaments carry their fields with them so that the field is always different. and no team knows the lay of the land perfectly .

yes well you arnt shooting projecticles at 300fps durring soccer and other child sports. i personally dont think they belong but sure if they can handel it and wont be a fucking piss off to everyone else then fine.

but to your other point it still doesnt disprove that paintballers are cheaters rather that they are. Your giving us an example of a profesional level of paintball, and look they still cheat risking the loss of not only one player but another of their teams. Anyways im just curious how the fuck do they pick the other play thats out? draw straws?????

So we've safely eliminated the no-hopers and the majority of the dangerous immaturity and generally have a sport that is primarily played by responsible adults with a lack of whining, crying, petulant children.

Not seeing a problem here.

http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/3841/ttmu3.jpg
She's dating one of the more famous pro players and is also supposed to be some fashion expert and model lol...

If you compare airsoft to paintball here, it is pretty much dying...

11-13 year olds in paintball wear chest pads to take away most of the pain. You must remember though, in speedball you are only ever hit in the mask, arm or gun. If playing properly since you don't step out of your bunker to shoot, you play very tight to your bunker. Also, it is rare to be hit when running since you do short runs only when no one is shooting at you.

If one player is caught playing on, they pull the next guy who is closest to them during the game.

Poor attempt to switch tracks.

Either popularity equals superiority or it doesn't.

I think your comment on Thriller blows your cred. If you are argueing MJ is better than Wagner, you have really lost it.

Are you suggesting that the Porcshe product is not better than Honda but that rich people are just too dumb to realize that? Most of my business associates and many of my friends own or have owned them, I better call and give them the bad news.

Your whole response was a weak effort at the dodge. It failed. I blame the education system for the poor quality of your logic.

LD

I hope this is a joke.

Ive never been a fan of windshield wiper eyelasher. I dont see how girls can wear them like that, fashionista or model or whatever. She has a very pretty face and lots going for her in the looks area. The only downside is, she dates a paintballer. HAH! Like I said, this is an airsoft forum, comments like that should be expected. I attempt to promote where I can.

Oh, I almost forgot, she over plucks her eyebrows, too thin is not in.

Now I know your brain has not yet fully developed. Posting a picture of some chick who is dating some guy adds to the discussion?

LD