Tanio Koba TWIST Inner Barrels.
 

After years of hearing and reading endless debates about Tanio Koba Twist inner barrels, and after years of hunting for them, I've finally acquired a couple of them in various lengths for various guns from AEGs to GBBs.

Here are my initial findings:

These inner barrels shoot STRAIGHT. They have an extremely predictable, flat and straight flight trajectory. Where standard hop up will cause the BB to gently curve up before dropping, TWIST (or cyclone) inner barrels will cause the BB to go extremely straight for an even further effective range before dropping.

To set a clear and definitive answer for all the debates that have floated on the internet for years:

Q1. "How is it physically possible to have a rifled barrel impart a spin on the BB and combine it with the Magnus effect of the hop-up? It is two totally different axes of rotation!"
A1. Actually, the barrel ISN'T "rifled" in the standard sense of a real gun. Yes, the inner barrel has spiral rifling grooves in it, but the BB does NOT touch the groove. The purpose of the TWIST inner barrel is not to put a rifling spin on the BB. It is to put a "cyclone" of air around the BB, to help float it through the inner barrel and PREVENT the BB from touching the side walls of the inner barrel at all. The result of this is higher accuracy, more predictable trajectory and greater effective range.

Q2. "I've heard about power requirements for these inner barrels. Details?"
A2. What you've heard is true. The twist inside these inner barrels are optimized for guns that shoot NO MORE than 1 Joule or 330fps with 0.20g BBs. Some internet debates claim that if you have a higher powered gun, all you need to do is use heavier BBs to slow down the velocity of the shot. NOT TRUE. The air moving around the BB will still be beyond 1 Joule and it will affect the shot trajectory.

Q3. "What happens beyond 1 Joule or 330fps with 0.20g BBs?"
A3. Up to 330fps, the results of the shot and even the shots dropoff are very predictable, accurate and flat. Groupings remain tight with very little spread. However, once the velocity of the shot begins to exceed that limit, the shot starts to become unpredictable with increased spread. The higher the velocity, the greater the perceived spread.

Q4. "So how accurate are these inner barrels compared to other brands such as Prometheus, KM TN or Systema?"
A4. At this time, I have not done any quantitative comparitive range testing to get accuracy results. When used within its optimized power range, I can outright say that these inner barrels have a MUCH straighter trajectory, greater effective range and a generally much more predictive flight path than any other barrel I've used before.

There is a project underway for an indoor range test to compare various lengths of these barrels against other barrels at different power ratings (stock, 1Joule and 400+fps).

How do I like these inner barrels? I love them. I wish they worked well at 400fps. At 360fps, they are still very acceptable and I will take that in to consideration when using them in some of my guns.
But for now, I am FOR SURE putting these inner barrels into all my pistols and low powered AEGs.

Further questions? Comments? Post away!

How does the range compare with a 1J gun with a Twist barrel, vs. a higher powered gun with a standard tightbore? I've seen people say that a lower powered gun with the proper accuracy upgrades will outshoot a higher velocity gun with a standard barrel, does this out perform a higher powered gun with a tightbore? You say the trajectory is flatter, and more predictable, does this also translate into better *effective* range?

Of course. As mentioned, the effective range is much further than standard hop up on a tightbore.

I'll have to let you know how range compares in a 1J Twist setup versus a high powered tightbore setup.

The statement where "a lower powered gun with the proper accuracy upgrades will outshoot a higher velocity gun with a standard barrel"... is that referring to range only? It's been proven that the higher you increase the velocity of your gun, the greater your shot consistency will spread. Especially if you are using the same weight BBs. It will cost an exponentially larger sum of money to tighten the shot spread to within the range of a properly upgraded low velocity gun. Light weight BBs have a greater tendency to not shoot straight when shot at high velocity.

If it's regarding range only, I believe that statement is false. There's only so far a BB can go before you need extra power to push it further.

Yes, I suppose that refers to shot consistancy, so thanks for clearing it up.

But I am definately still interested in seeing the results between a 1J Twist set up vs. a high powered tight bore. That could definately prove interesting, considering the strain high powered rifles can put on the mechbox (particularly V2). If you could get the same results from a lower velocity rifle, and save the strain on your mech box, that'd be awesome.

All I can figure about these "Twisted" or "rifled" barrels is that it doesn't make sense to me. The BB's we use are hard plastic, not soft enough to be shaped by the rifling. Nor do I see how this can give/get any better spin to the round than the hop up systems in AEG's presently. The overhead wheel puts a nice back spin, which because its a sphere really works well. Now if they divited the rounds like a golf ball than we'd see some improvement. But who wants to pay EVEN more for a hand full of live savers :P



Its like the difference between my MP4 and my M4A1. My M4 has great velocity and a decent grouping, but the MP5 will get better range ((Not accurate range but better range)) however in the brush the slightest/tinest branch kills the MP5 rounds where as the M4's cut through better. The only thing that I can think of to cause this would be that the slower moving MP5 round ((Also note these are both firing 0.25)) has a more stable back spin on it, but has not momentum behind it to punch through the brush. Where as the M4 has so much more air pressing the round forward that it has lots of momentum but because of the increased velocity resulting in a more instable spin to the round.

It'd be interesting to see what these barrels did with a softer round though :D

Deacheous the "rifling" doesn't even touch the BB. Air moves up the rifled shafts and keeps even pressure on all sides of the BB, thus reducing friction inside the barrel because the BB "floats" as opposed to bounces.


-Cheese

Exactly.

Too bad these things can't work on sniper rifles up to 500fps, I'd love to get one for my M24! Then again, maybe with heavier ammo, they might work alright?

;-)

These things would have the opposite effect on FPS than a tightbore, wouldn't they? I mean, more air is getting past the BB and all...

Point, but counter point, wasn't talking about using a heavy BB to slow down the velocity, was talking about the stability of the heavier round, and mainly the comparison of tightbore vs. twisted barrel, at those velocities with heavier rounds, would the twisted barrel shoot a lot worse than a tightbore (ahem, or even a stock barrel). Have to wait and see what Illusion comes up with using the barrel in hot guns, and most likely he'll test with a range of ammo for a broad range of results in different conditions.

I wonder how difficult it would be to produce a tightbore version of a Twist barrel... Or if it would work, for that matter. One would think, that since the detrimental part of higher velocities is that the air goes past the BB too much, if you were to reduce the size of the barrel, you would theoretically reduce the air going by the BB because there'd be less room for it to go past.

that would nulify the point behind the twist, and then you get into why I thought this was non-sense. The twist is supposed to make a cushion of air around the bb as it travels down the barrel ((didn't see that point made before there Illusion)). If the bb is in constant contact with the twist/rifling then you have the issue like I said, the round is too hard, not soft enough to let the rifling work. You'd just have a bb corkscrewing down the barrel and fly off in random directions out the barrel ((Like a shot gun)).

....You're still missing it. A tightbore doesn't touch the BB either. If you could use a tightbore Twist barrel, you wouldn't be spinning the BB (still) you would just be creating a smaller space AROUND the BB for the air to go past, which seems to be where the problem is when using higher velocities in the Twist barrels.

When comparing velocity to a Prometheus 6.03mm inner barrel in a 400fps M14, the TWIST inner barrel was only about 5fps less on average, showing that they are still tighter than stock inner barrels.


It doesn't seem to matter if heavier BBs are used. At high velocities, the BBs just seem to fly everywhere at the end of their range (powered by the gun's initial energy, and not from Magnus effect), and I'm thinking it may be because the TWIST inner barrel does put some kind of gyro spin on the BB.
Further testing is required to verify this information.


That statement contradicts two of Japan's oldest airsoft manufacturers. Both Systema and Tanio Kobayashi claim that BBs DO bounce around inside an inner barrel. Systema claims that BBs have a tendency to bounce around an inner barrel even more when the bore is tighter, and which is why they stick to a 6.04mm process and won't go tighter.

This is a good read: http://www.systema-engineering.com/E...unchiku3-1.htm

Of course, there is no substantial evidence to verify any of these claims.
Range tests need to be performed to verify.

Maybe, nobody really knows how airsoft barrels work. I suggest that Illusion dyes the inside of his barrels with permanent marker ink and fires off a bunch of rounds. Sacrifice the barrels by cutting them in half to examine where the ink has scuffed of on bbs. Saving that, maybe someone with a rifle borescope can help out with this discussion and save us from having to cut barrels apart.

Apart from making observations of shooting performance from range tests, it's pretty difficult to really say how bbs touch the inside of barrels without direct observation.

Sorry, what I meant by that was that a tightbore doesn't hug the BB on all sides, (the concept of rifling that Drach is stuck on) I know they bounce around, hence the benefit of the Twist barrels (keeping it floated in the centre of the barrel). What I was getting at, was that a tighter bore would have less space around the BB for the air to pass by, thus allowing a higher velocity/power with the Twist barrel.

I see.

The twist inner barrels pretty much forego that idea... After all, what's the point of having a BB go 5fps faster if it's more inaccurate than when it was 5fps slower?

....I realize that.

The Twist barrels increase shot consistancy. They only work up to about 330fps.

Assumedly a gun shooting hotter is going to shoot farther (albiet, at this time it loses consistancy at that range).

The reason (if I'm reading it right) that a Twist barrel only works to 330fps, is because the air starts going past the BB and screws with what the barrel is trying to achieve in the first place.

Therefore, if you were to tighten the bore of a Twist barrel, you have less air escaping around the BB. This, in theory, would allow a higher velocity (because the air wouldn't be escaping around the BB) and not be detrimental to the effect of the Twist barrel. That way you get the increased range of a higher velocity gun, but at the same time, you get the increased accuracy of the Twist barrel.

(Sorry, I had a horrible sleep last night, so I'm having trouble expressing what I'm trying to say... Brain no workey)

Okay, I understand what you're trying to say now.

I don't believe the high power failure is because the air starts to go past the BB. I believe it's because the rifling grooves are only optimized for a certain power rating. If the twist was stretched out or tightened up (I'm not too sure on the physics behind rifling), then it may be better optimized for high powered guns.

Japan has rules that restrict guns from shooting beyond a certain power rating, which is why Tanio Kobayashi skipped the idea of optimizing for higher power.

In fact, just last night, the manager of the First Factory store in Japan, along with five others in the shop were arrested for illegally owning and modifying airsoft guns to limits which could "cause harm or death."

Slowly but surely, my brain is turning on.... Anyway, I think you *may* have mentioned that before. It does make sense that it would work that way (try pushing something loose over a spiraled column of some sort, if you push it slowly, it'll follow the grooves, but if you push it quickly it skips over them), however I'd be curious to know how difficult it would be to spin those grooves down a barrel, and if it would be feasible/possible to try recreating them at a more optimized ratio, be it shorter or longer. I would guess that the twist would have to be stretched more, and I'm sure there's a point where it would cease to be effective, but if it's reasonably possible to "rifle" a standard, or tightbore barrel with similar grooves on a different scale, it would be interesting to see the results.

Maybe MadMax the machine shop guru could shed some light on the difficulties involved in doing something like that...

I think the TK grooving would either be swaged or broached.

Swaging would involve pulling a tool down the barrel which deforms the material to form the shape. The tool would have helixed lobes and would be rotated as it'd drawn down the barrel.

Broaching uses a progression of cutting edges to shave the profile. The forwardmost (first) cutter removes say only 0.002" of metal and the one behind takes another thin chip. A progression of 5 cutting edges could remove 0.01" of metal per pull which sounds about how much a TK barrel needs. After broaching, a polishing stage would be required to take off the burrs and clean up the cut surfaces. I wouldn't be surprised if polishing could be accomplished by pumping an abrasive paste thru the barrel for awhile.

If TK was uber advanced, they could be using an electrical discharge technique which ablates metal with electrical discharges. I kind of doubt that they're doing that though. It's an expensive slow process which is usually used for hard steels. I think Glock barrels are electrically ablated to form the rifling. With electrical ablation, you can do crazy stuff like progressive rifling which varies the helix angle from beginning to end. Start with a gentle helix and end with a steeper one so you apply a more constant torque on the bullet as it accelerates down the barrel. SVI does that I think.

Very cool. I've used broaching to form splines on the inside of a hole before, so I'm aware of that technique, and I would be inclined to agree, for the depth of the groove, you could probably just deburr it with some sort of abrasive paste/liquid. Is it feasible/easy to do on a consistant, helical path down an entire AEG barrel?

I have no idea as I have little direct experience in the techniques. I would think that a viscous paste would tend to follow the grooves. Even if it didn't, it'd wear off burrs.

Can we somehow distube this article/test to other friendly forum for discussion ? Knowing that it had been debate to death, still this is a great article and it's good to share with the entile airsoft community.

Feel free to forward the link of this thread to other discussions on this topic to other forums.

Google will soon pick up the contents of this article. The more this article gets linked, the higher it will rank.

That's known as gain rifling. The M61 Vulcan cannon barrels use this (among others I imagine) to minimize the initial rotational torque on the projectile.

I think the point of constant rifling is to exert a constant torque.

A rifling with constant lead requires the bullet to spin up to whatever rotational rate which corresponds to the instantaneous forward velocity. I'm guessing that a bullets acceleration may be higher at the root of the barrel so you'd be exerting a higher torque at the beginning of it's travel than at the end. I think gain rifling matches the bullets accelleration at each point in the barrel with a constant corresponding rate of rotational increase which requires a constant torque.

I conjecture that this reduces friction in the rifling (barrel heating) and perhaps wear on the barrel and bullet.

So... Where can I get one for a TM M16A2?

When do you guess you will be doing some tests? The groupping info would be much appreciated, as really the use in guns over 330fps is quite an interesting topic.

I've got a couple of these coming in for my Glock and my M14, once I get them installed I'll offer my impressions, although they won't be nearly as in-depth as Illusion's research.

Kurgan, the easiest way to get them is to get in on a group order to WGC or UNCo. I ordered mine in a WGC order with Raygis LasVegas.

So...

How much and when can you ship to me? (TM M4 Length) :D

Have no range time booked. Been pretty busy with work.


They've all been sold since then. :D

The range test will actually take a fair bit of time. Each added variable multiplies the number of trials to be run. We also want to do a fair bit of other research if we're going to go through the trouble of setup:

for example:

-ten shots per unique setup
-4x AEG spring setups (~stock, ~330fps, ~380fps, ~420fps)
-11x total barrels: 4x M4 barrels (stock, TK, PDI 6.50, PDI 6.01), 3x M16 (stock, TK, PDI 6.01), 4x P90 (stock, TK, PDI 6.05, PDI 6.01)
-5x/7x total bb types: Maruzen 0.29g Grand Master, 3x Guarder (0.2, 0.25, 0.28), Excel 0.2g, for only one B/A setup: Straight (0.36, 0.43)

That limited but generally comprehensive results in 220 unique setups (the b/a tests on heavy pellets is not to be done with AEGs). Those 220 setups will require 44 gun unique gun configurations (swapping barrels + springs).

I'd also like to do some tests with a very high energy setup to measure actual pellet velocity at different ranges so we could finally come up with a well informed decision on safe sniping ranges and acceptable mercy range. Truth is that if we're willing to accept a closed ranged hit from say a 300fps AEG firing 0.2g pellets and said pellet decellerates to 280fps in 10', then we should be willing to accept no mercy rules with a stock gun game where only 280fps guns are in play. We can also use the range-speed data to determine practical safe sniping ranges for high energy rifles.

220 unique setups require 2200 carefully aimed pellets on paper. That works out to a heck of a lot of time changing gun configurations and targets. A useful range test is going to take a lot of time.

When these tests are done, I’m going to have to look into this.

My WA Beretta’s got great range on it, but it could perhaps use more, so could the FA-MAS if there’s a particularly long barrel available.

my current setup curves a bit to the right. Would this fix it?

Doing tests with a ba and straight pellets isn't the best. Yes they are heavier but for a loss in quality. The straight pellets are the pits. I had a bag and at 500 fps my ksc .3's and guarder .28's faired better then them. Consistency goes out the window with the straight pellets washed or not.

No, unless your current barrel is warped or carries some kind of burr that imparts the hook on your BB.

Dunno how safe the following advice is. When my G36 shoots a bit to one side after reassembling, I just grab it by the inner barrel and give it a firm but really minimal twist in the opposite direction. Fixes it right up.

update: I dropped my rifle. I had in on my shoulder and the top sling hook came off and the gun rotated down and hit on the muzzel.

Gun shoots better now.
I invested in a better sling since then and have ordered a twist barrel to see what it does myself.

Where'd you order it from?

I ordered mine from WGC through one of Raygis LasVegas's group orders.

I've got them now, just waiting on a chrono.

what he said

K, ILLusion is getting one for me now.

ill be reciving a 509 mm tanio koba barrel, and putting it in my M170 tuned rifle on FA, with around 24 RPS. then we will see if they are truly unsuited for high fps upgrades. som guys in denmark thinks they are fine for fps over 400 also, thats why i want to try this, to see if they are right since mine are around 578 fps. i will be reciving it around the 14th, and trying it out in a game the 28th, i wont do any target shooting only real testing. to see if the bullet trajectory is screwed or if it is level.

I canceled my barrel order. Too much bling for this time of year. Just going with my locap order.

Too bad man, but you don't really need on with that M14 hitting so well as is.

I've got an M14 length one, going to try it in mine once I acquire a chrono. If it doesn't work I'm just going to get a Prometheus tightbore instead.

I have one coming for my C7A2 project (M16 length).

What spring do you recommend Brian?

I might try to install it in my ICS M4 for some testing (since it is SO much easier to swap springs in that fellow compared to a damn V2 mechbox).

Cheers

i've got one in my umg
it's sexy
now you're staring down the all black barrel

Anything that shoots 1Joule or less. I recommend a Prometheus MS100SP. Great springs, and ANODIZED BLUE!!! SWEEEEEET!

I have a question. If the barrel is designed to create a cyclone around the BB to cushion it and give it a more stable flight path does the length of the barrel effect how well it works? For example, my G36C has a tiny barrel (in comparison) does the full effect of the TK barrel come into effect with the BB only going for that distance within the barrel?

I haven't noticed that at all.

Awesome, thanks, got one of these barrels on order to go with my standard spring/bushing upgrade for my TM G36C. I'll probably write a review once it get's installed and I've played with it for a game or two.

Am looking forward to your results, keep us informed. :)

I have one in my hicapa
its makes it a lot more fun to look down the barrel

For all those wondering I have one installed on my M14 with an MS120 spring (among many other things) and proformance is quite dissapointing. Accuracy and range are probably on par with a stock barrel but keep in mind this setup is shooting well over the 1J mark. Im just too lazy to throw my Prom back in.

In short, they suck above 1J, keep it low.

so do we have any results at all on these barrels yet?

I've had one in my WE1911 for a number of weeks now, but I've only gotten to use it indoor. It's pretty close to a laser at 25', though. My first outdoor game with it will be this coming Sunday, I should have some observations then.

Mine wasn't doing anything in a stock P90, so we'll see what happens once the P90 starts shooting closer to 330 fps, because right now it's just a waste of money, basically just turned the inner barrel black.

How do these twist barrels perform with bore-up cylinders? are they better than with non bore-up ones?

With a bore-up setup, you'll probably be pushing BBs faster than the twist barrels are designed for.

ah... I see
thanks for clearing that up for me

any results on these barrel with 200mm+ barrels yet?
Think i might have to buy one for myself and see how it goes lol

About a month late, but i was thinking a little bit, for around the past 5 minutes since i started reading this thread, for faster bb's i'm thinking, they should make a barrel where the rifling is more stretched out, so then the air around it would have less rotational force, and since the bb is moving faster, it'll have the same amount of spin? dunno its 4:00am and thats how it makes sense to me right now.

I seriously doubt "they" (meaning Tanio Koba) would do anything of the sort. The TK barrel's "rifling" is optimized for Japan velocity limits: 328 fps, or 1 Joule. Since, like most Japanese airsoft products, they are not intended for any market outside of Japan, suggesting "they" go into business making barrels for a higher velocity is irrelevent - the bulk of Mr. Kobayashi's customers are in Japan and could not use them anyways. Nice idea, but it ain't gonna happen.

There was a discussion on ACM Games in the Phillipines about making 500 FPS+ "twist" barrels, but I don't think it ever took off - the cost was too much, and most Filipino players were not willing to pay that much when they are already making their own 6.01 and 6.02 tightbores for dirt cheap (relative to the area of the world).....

DB Customs are in the process of making higher FPS twist barrels. They also make 6.01mm for just about everything.

sorry to bump this thread but I have a question.

What if the FPS of my gun is slightly higher than 1J? as in somewhere around 335FPS with 0.2g BBs?

I'm guessing that the bb might become unstable, and might veer off somewhere.

That's fine... a couple of my guns hit higher, one as high as 350fps and I still keep the Tanio Koba barrel in there. It's a CQB gun, so I rarely need maximum effective range with that gun anyways. But at the very end of the flight path, the spread is a bit wider, although it's not horrible.

thanks for the info there.

hmmm, I may be willing to contribute to this thread with testing. I've been curious for a long time as to how the maximum EFFECTIVE range of a high powered setup with a standard tightbore would compare to a 1J setup with a twist. Currently, I own a P90 with an airsoft surgen 1J spring and a twist, and have been very satisified with its performance. I may buy a 1.5J spring and load up my old Systema tightbore to do some comparisons. It may be a few weeks but I'll report on what I find.

so as a future airsofter, i am now at a crossroads. Apparently, the TK barrel will increase accuracy, but range will be reduced. I might have missed it while reading, but by how much? That also being said, it seems, from what i have read, that this barrel would not be a good choice to use for say a Tanaka Kar98k or a heavily upped AEG that shoots over 1 joule. So, if i upgrade a TM M14, to become a harder hitting, farther shooting gun and as well put a 6.03 mm IB in it, would it be better if i just put a TK barrel in? I mean, if at close ranges, both barrels are comparable in accuracy, then it would seem to me that the regular barrel would be a better choice cause at least it shoots farther. In short, its great that it has a bit more accuracy, but if it cant hit targets out as far as a regular barrel, whats the point? Sorry if any of this doesn't make any sense, im exhausted today cause i worked for 12 hours. If i missed something in the thread that provides me with an answer to aquestion that i asked in this post, forgive me.

The Twist inner barrels are great choices for guns that shoot within the limit of 1J (as Japanese guns are required, by law.)

Beyond that, they are not the product you're looking for.

Let me put a twist(pun);) on this twist barrel, I am in the paintball industry of which I had apart in development of Rifle barrels for a company called Armson. Over the year we and many other companies tried different ideas and methods to control the ball . A round object is not aerodynamic , the PB or BB works the same as a old musket ball in a black power rifle , when the musket fires and the ball runs up the barrel and where it leaves the end tip of the barrel it will vear to so no control . The only way you can control the ball is putting a spin on to the ball , smooth bore barrels can be tight or large , the larger bore will let more gas escape around the ball when fired , while the tight ball while let lets air escape , thus the ball would travel further and need less power to move the ball.
If you over pressure any round object it will become unstable. Just the right amount of gas is need to get the a more accurate shot,sometime less is more. If you want to see the close thing to a bb shooting down a barrel Tom Kaye of Air Gun Designs shot some high speed footage usesing a clear barrel and you can see the ball shooting down the barrel. Look at www.airgundesigns.com hope the footage is still there. Here is what we found to work that best on our design at Armson . Due to the ball getting made small we made our bore size about the same as the most avg ball which was a .685 ,the balls were in the range of .684,5 tru 9 diam so we kept it as close to the ball size for sealing, 2nd the was the length of the barrel , we found and in general that the best length was between 6 and 8 inches for acceleration of the ball and the total barrel length was 13 to 14inchs.We also found by drilling holes from the 9inch to the front part of the barrel ,the ball would be come stable and the ball would fly as stable as we could get it to fly and lastly we made the barrel with a progressive turn which started with a slow turn from the back a tighter turn to the front.

Just my cents

Here's a thought, if Illusion or someone else was still up to the task of testing these barrels.

Forget the idea of swapping springs firstly.
All that is needed is a gas rifle in which you can swap barrels easily that has an external source and regulator.
Fire off 10-20 shots through a chrony at the target and record the distance the BB deviated and its speed. Extrapolate that speed to energy.
Repeat for different speeds and weights, then barrels.
It would take maybe two or three days to measure all your data, and I would be more than willing to help out if this were to be conducted in the Ottawa area, or at the very least I have enough university lab experience to properly analyze the results and report on them.

All this requires is the regulated gas receiver, a bunch of barrels, BBs, a chrony and an indoor spot to test.


This will provide hard data for extrapolation to what springs can be used in what lengths of twist barrels to achieve the optimal grouping and the roll-off rate for those that want a bit more BB velocity.

Is this good inner barrel if i but this on my vsr-10? And i have 2.66j in that vsr-10? Does that inner barrel work in my vsr? :O

Dont care of my bad english and try understand it. =)

Thanks for every one.

Anything over ~320 will start to lower accuracy, You would be better off buying a 6.01 tightbore

Why they then made this kind off barrels if they dont work in it?

Because there's a limit in Japan on how hard their guns can shoot. Outside of Japan, sniper rifles can benefit from far higher power, and the Twist barrel is far less useful than a tightbore in those cases.

yes, but if it shoots that extra bit further, wouldn't that be a point in favor of using a tightbore over a twist barrel?

What's the point of increasing range if it comes at the expense of accuracy? You want to be increasing effective range.

no i understand that, i was just playing devils advocate. there was the same debate in the paintball community back when i played it. i went both routes, greater range, loss of accuracy, and greater accuracy and loss of range, and the greater accuracy was the better deal. but really, we all use the 6.03 inner barrels. they are our bread and butter. and the range and accuracy on them are great. i have heard no complaints from those types of barrels (well the prometheus ones anyway). and if the accuracy is only marginally better, id rather have the ability to hit you before you can hit me. i dunno, those are just my thoughts.

EDIT: in the end, im just going to order a DB custom 6.01mm inner barrel for the Marui M14 from Airsoft GI. supposed to have a 2-3" grouping at 25 yards with the hop-up turned off. Now that is impressive.

Help it if i use hevier bb like 0.36? Is this barrel 6.04? or something like that?

Not quite sure what the diametre is, but reports of a slight fps increase would suggest it's a little tighter than most stock barrels.

According to ILLusion, it won't help if you use a heavier BB. It's not so much a fps limitation these barrels have, but one of muzzle energy. Fps is simply usually more practical for describing them than Joules.

Does anyone know how tight this inner barrel is?

no we dont have an exact measurment. dont think of this as a tightbore barrel. this barrel is in a class of its own. from reading about this, id get this barrel for pistols and stock guns that you keep as backup in case your main gun fails. at least then you can hit what you shoot at.

P.S: fill out your profile and location and age. there are many bilingual people on these forums. perhaps they speak the same language as you.:)

Not if your gun can't (or is limited to) shoot over 1J. Think pistols, stock guns and AEPs. If you're looking to install this in to your bolt action sniper rifle, I surely do hope you live in Japan...

fair enough. but i am talking about canadian airsoft, not japans. in japan, this barrel would be the best choice IMO, but here, i think a DB Custom 6.01mm barrel would be the best. you get both accuracy, range and power (at least if the site is not falsifying their data)

just wondering who makes the 6.01 barrels, who do u guys recommend the most

Prometheus make a 6.01 barrels.

yes but they are really expensive. DB Custom makes them too, here is some info about them. Id get this barrel for my M14 and order it to Airsoft GI.

I'd like to know your source for that information. I've never seen nor heard of Prometheus putting a 6.01mm bore barrel on the market.


Other manufacturers of 6.01mm barrels:
- PDI
- EdGI

EdGI also provides barrels down to 6.00mm.

Illusion, have you (or heard of anyone) tested these barrels over 330fps to see what they do for range/accuracy, to see if they actually do perform worse as the fps goes up? I recall you saying you'd test them out with various velocities, but don't remember seeing anything about it since.

And just a bit below that:
Those quotes were taken from the original post. Those comments were derived directly from first hand experience at both 360fps and up to 420fps.

Would having a shorter inner Tanio barrel with a longuer outer barrel cause performance issue?

Ie a Tanio 256 mm in a 267 mm outer barrel

No more than having a shorter tightbore or stock inner barrel inside a longer outer barrel.

I m a newbie, would this cause problem?

I would be thinking about air turbulence.

Thanks. So above 330fps they are no better than a regular tightbore then.

so that is a fact then? i am just curious because if that is the case, then for hotter shooting rifles, you are better of with a TB, and for slower shooting stock guns, and pistols, you are better off with a twist barrel. still, i think a good quality 6.01mm barrel would be a better choice in the longrun because you get great accuracy and the range/power.