Airsoft Picking up/Dying?
 

Whats everyones opinion? Is this sport picking up, or is it on a decline? From my POV i think airsoft should be played way more than paintball due to many factors. But just curious to what everyone else thinks

Seems some of the old guard are dying off or trickling away and I'm afraid the new crop has watched too many youtube videos.

Numbers wise, I'd say it's growing, but in terms of player quality, it's diminishing in my opinion. Shame I missed out on when the sport was a tightknit group of guys who all knew each other so it really was a sport of honour where everybody calls their hits. Nowadays, we got kids running around calling other players' hits when they don't even have a mag in their guns... -_-

Granted, technology has made the sport way cooler, but has also segregated it into has and has-nots. You show up to a milsim in southern Ontario without night vision, you're target practice when the sun goes down. Guns have gotten nutty in terms of accuracy, range, and ROF, but this also means that a fair amount of damage can be done if it's in the wrong hands.

So sure, I guess the sport is growing, but I'm not entirely sure it's in the right direction. What some fields and hosts are doing with vetted entry and private games are symbolic of the times where they need to restrict the player base to bring it back to the roots of the sport, and I think that's kind of sad that we need to do that now... (and even then... LT isn't hosting his amazing indoor series anymore due to incidents even though they were technically closed/private games)

On the other hand, some of the existing teams are really cool and set an amazing example and are good role models for younger and newer players, and some fields (Siege) are doing kind of outreach programs during skirm nights where they have features of known players and teams.

Growing. There's more fields and more players every day. Paintball has nearly been pushed right off most fields. Most fields that cater to paintball are banning Airsoft because of the decline.

Thhatsmy thought, paintball is just highway robbery at its finest. Most fields if not all charge an absolutely outrageous price for paintballs, which is where the profit lies.

All I know is there arnt any more illusion builds out there. I miss drooling over those. As for players, it seems to be still very tight knit. I just moved to a new area and after eight months of work and hiding in my house it only took one quick search and I'm out playing with a whole new group. And they are as awesome as my team was.

You're up in GP? Is that Jonas, Brad, Garret, etc?

I don't think that's the case. I have watched entire squads who DO NOT run NODS run circles around NOD wearing squads. NODS can help sure, but they don't give you GOD mode at night.

In my opinion Airsoft seems to be growing. I play with a very tight group of people and haven't experienced much of the new wave douchery that others have. Lucky me :)

Agree mostly. Technology has a very important and exponential effect on the game, but it has to be the right tech and used right. Skill and team is always the big picture though.

Airsoft is dieing in every aspect.
No lasers, no burst indoors, no thunder bs indoor, people with polar stars lighting people up, also turning up there fps once walking on the field.

Cheating is way down, very rare now on the plus side

There are to many stupid rules for indoor.

The best part about night vision is watching people who just got night vision walk into things.

Airsoft is dying because of butthurt?

The second is a contributing factor for a lot of the first point.

No longer in GP. In Medicine Hat now. Brad actually sold me a rifle for my better half. Great guy, and I believe I got her gear from Jonas. But there wasn't much game play in the area.

The sport is a rollercoaster in most places, some worse then others. Like mentioned about the old guard are retiring and the new guys are slowly taking their place. For example here in Brooks, we had a slow decline over 3 years as people moved away or quit the sport, then the sport became dead for a couple years and now its on the rise again. With a population of 11k and a player base of over 40...its doing good but the players need to hang out together more. There are atleast 3 different groups in the area that have no clue who the other guys are.

It'll be dead by summer; just when all the kids get out of school and they'll never get to play.

Lucky my city of 140 000 has about 15 regulars I've found.

Seems alive and well in Southwestern Ontario, I've only been doing it since 2011, have seen a steady increase in the number of games offered each season.

Group we run with has many levels of player experience and ages. I think you have a choice of the quality of games you'd like to attend and the kind of people you play with. There's lots of honest decent new players too, many of us have the same values and ideals that the "old guard" had. I'm almost 50 but continue to strive and make airsoft better for myself and the guys I play with.

It's more popular, but it's also more fleeting of an interest.
In the old days, everyone knew everyone because there was only about 50-200 people in a main community. We all played milsim and scrims, everyone was mostly on the same page. We weren't too hardcore into one or the other. People came and left, but for the most part you'd recognize at least 3/4 of the people at a game for years in a row.
There was more dedication required to start as well, as the cheapest gun you could get was the one everyone else was running and it was $600-$800.

Now it's way more affordable to get into airsoft. You get a $200 gun that's actually half decent, spend $50 on a chest rig, and off you go.
However, we also have way more people dropping OUT of airsoft. People are in it for 2 years, get sick of it and leave.
The people who are in it for just the 2 years tend to love the run and gun pace of basic scrims. And there's nothing wrong with that.
But the milsim crowd is slowly dying off in many places, and unfortunately, milsim really IS what made airsoft great in the first place. The only reason we have vehicles, pyro, huge 300 person games, and actual organization at those 300 person games is because of milsim.

Scrims are great every now and then, but the LARPing is really what keeps people IN. And I think a lot of new people don't realize that.
Maybe there's a reason why someone does it for a year and quits, and some other guys have been doing it for 12 years.

We're running out of milsim, and it's a real shame. Because shooting people is what gets you into the game, but doing stuff OTHER than shooting people is what keeps you in.
You can have the same experience of shooting people in clever ways every weekend, but once you get into night games, and objectives, and organized teams, it's a whole new game.

Eliminating the last few guys on a team in a deathmatch is cool, but single handedly winning the game without ever having to fire a shot is amazing.
Actually 2 of my proudest wins, and coolest games in all my airsoft career were both games in which I never shot my gun.

I agree whole heartedly with this. The weekend scrims are what set the initial hook for me but I always wanted more. Getting into milsim is what kept the interest. As said above, it's often the moments where you're not shooting, rather, planning and manoeuvring that are the most fun.

Is say its a mixed bag. Theb"old timers" who had been here before the creation of the modern ASC forum are mostly out of the game or play rarely.
All the best groups (both old and new) tend to play private/semi private games/fields and big Milsim events.
The young/new group are enthusiastic and for the most part alot younger then the previous generation due to the ease of acess.
When I started playing one needed close to 1000 bucks just to buy a decent rifle and mags and basic gear (boots eyepro).
That kept the group small and commited.
Nowadays one can get involved/try it out for 50bucks and then if they like it drop 3-500 and play.
Then later decide if they need Rhopped prometheus inners with paintball, i mean polarstar internals etc...
Now we are in transision. We are to an extent becoming the new paintball and as such wind up with devided groups (woods ball, speed/hyperball, milsim/milskrim) and folks get shifted around finding what they like.
Its great really overall but at the same time it thins us out, lots of fields everyone spread out. At a time all of us from scarborough to hamilton and beyond had to travell to FR for Zeons outdoor airsoft only days in 3 feet of snow. Now we can choose from 5 games every week so we choose the closest one and stay home if it rains lol.
As for the snoflakes and such, well without trying to offend anyone, if full auto (within reason, not 5 seccond burst of 60bbsps from a cmag), and thunderB's, smoke nades and rubber knife kills are too intense for you, you may want to stick with Nearf, Lazer Tag or LARPing, all of those can let you "play soldier"
In a "safe space".
For the speedballer airsofters welcome, i cant wait untill the fields start catering better to your needs without forcing you into the paint soaked fields, and i encourage you yo come out a play with the "milsim" guys from time to time, we can all learn tactics from eachoter.
I guesd really we are just in a transistion. PB was the same before. Community division because some like pink and double triggers and some like mag fed and multi cam lol

Agreed. One of my favourite games was one in which I stepped out of the CP just to see what's going on and another was where I fired my pistol like... six times over the entire day.

I think the ability to transition between the technical to the tactical is vitally important because we all love those crazy low on ammo firefights but it is equally cool to see supply lines of reinforcement/replenishment develop.

it's a growing casual activity up here in the NCR, 2 indoor fields, soon to be 5 outdoor fields. 20-50 people on any given weekend day at 3 fields I've visited in the last couple years. It might be a bit TOO convenient to play, so people might not feel obligated to go out often so I often see lots of new faces. Also it seems that every field has its own clique of players with some roving groups of players that visit multiple fields.

If people really wanted to grow it in a positive sense, they need to try and be less cliquey and be more inclusive. Flip side is new players need to learn not to suck and take feedback on how to play better and not be butthurt when they get their shit pushed in by good players.

Just like the old days, there's people who are out there for fun, and some who are out there for sport.
Honestly I think some of our memories are backwards on the subject. I think everyone USED to be all about having fun 12 years ago, and the very few of us who were obsessed with being the best just kind of dealt with it because we only had one group. So the 4-6 of us that were really good just split off onto both teams and games were basically just the few of us shooting eachother with the odd target popping up every now and then...

New people are allowed to suck, and if they don't WANT to get better, that's fine too.
But they also need to respect that we DO want to get better, and not accuse us of cheating when we're multiple tiers above them in skill.

I do try to get around and play with all the groups around Calgary. Get my face out there, try to push the idea that us milsim guys are GOOD, but not assholes about it lol
I figure if people hate us for being good, they at least can't hate us for being assholes.

Are these private games not posted on these forums? How would one get into one? Im from the north and am looking for games down south!

quantity: up
quality: down

^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^

Anyone whose been around long enough to recall $1000 classic army G36s from A&A Ripoff understands. The barrier to entry was high ergo less ADD kids in the game. Ahhh...cracks beer...the good ol days...

I bought my first pistol from Anderson & Anderson
KJW M9, like 600 bucks or something stupid like that, workhorse that damn thing still running strong lol

A truer statement, I have not yet seen.......

It actually makes me wish Cyma AKs still cost almost $500

Airsoft was always going to go mainstream, the current state of it is partially due to the lack of organization by the experienced players. If we ran games that had realistic gear restrictions and dynamics that catered only to a more competitive style, then we'd still be living the good 'ol days. The point where we dropped our standards and became more inclusive to bolster numbers, that's where we screwed up. A good game is a good game, player count is only a small part of that.

I said this ten years ago, and I'll say it again now, just because you're out there with an Airsoft gun doesn't mean you're doing the same thing as the guy next to you. Airsoft is anything that involves Airsoft guns, but wether it's more of a sport or a hobby, is all in how the players take it. There are some player types that don't mix, which is common during the inception of all sports, and right now they are sharing the field, and although they would appear to be doing the same thing, they are as different as playing football is to paving a driveway. Intent and context are everything.

Way back, we had very little Airsoft in our town. We ran a private group on a private field. Our goal was to push a more tactically competitive game style, and that was it. To us, that was the fun side. We had players come and go over the years that didn't want to do what we were doing. Wether that was WWII interest, sci-fi, casual speedball, etc. They'd try playing and not like it, or disagree with our rules, kit restrictions, whatever, and move on. There wasn't really other options for them in our town back then, so it was between quitting or driving forever to find a game type that suited them, but that's that.

There aren't many venues or groups right now that strictly run that type of play style anymore, so that's the issue. If we want to have more serious events, then all we need to do is host them. It's a lot of work however, so that's a deterant to most I'm sure. Also, to play that way is expensive and exhausting, so many bitch out before they are willing to train as a team, crawl through mud, spend thousands on effective gear and give up their own little things to be efficient players, instead of "for fun", as they call it.

Wow, It's been so long since I've heard that name. Bought my First CA G36c from them. It's still my main machine.

I'll say that as a newb, I think airsoft is continuing to pick up. 7-8 years ago I got interested in airsoft and did the reading and research, and concluded that the cost and logistics barriers were too high for me. Even now, 8 years of income (and expenses) later, if things were still the way they were back then, it would be a non-starter for me.

Now there are several indoor fields to play at in Toronto and even a target shooting facility, retail stores and lots of great advice and knowledge built up from you 'old guard'. Not to mention the AV deals in the classifieds.

As communities get bigger, they diversify. That doesn't mean the sport is 'dying', it is growing. Among all the newbies and dilettantes, you're going to find a small group of individuals that goes at it hard, gets out to those long milsim events and advances / advocates for the community.

Myself - I can't make that commitment. However, I'll go play CQB at Siege/UA, I'll take the training at TTAC3 and Action Air and I'm serious about improving my performance and communication and getting the right gear to support it. Maybe if my CINC lets me one day ;), I'll even start getting out to field skirmishes.

I'll say it again, diversity is good.
Better to have the speedballers playing speedball with the speedball guys and the milsimers playing milsim with the milsim guys than having them all play together and everyone's unhappy.

If only it worked so nicely. Unfortunately alot of speedball guys starting showing up at milsim days and making the milsimers dumb down their game to make it speedball.

?

Read: walking off the field when they can't understand the implied "divide your team to attack this objective while simultaneously defending this objective" and getting stomped by a team a third of their size that has the mental capacity to understand gameplay beyond "there is an enemy that direction, I must shoot him".

As a game host it makes it very difficult to host more complex games that require thinking and strategy when all you can expect to show up are mostly mental midgets.

We have seen an enormous boom of airsofters in our area. We cater to both the speed-soft and strategic types. We have games like bitch and team death-match that the speed-softers like (not saying everyone else does not like it). And we have more objective orientated games as well, such as patrol or HVT.

Both sides are thriving, but what we have found is that it is the strategic style games that keep people coming back. Once players get radios, they start really enjoying the objective side of things.

By refusing to follow game objectives, ROE and general Milsim style of play. Complaining excessively because its a milsim and they haven't shot someone in 30 seconds, asking for special rules to allow them to play in jeans/hoodies and allow hi-caps, no radios, won't follow squad leads/team leads. Soon as the game starts they run off to get in a gun fight, even if they are under an ROE. Not bleeding out or waiting for medics because being out of the game for 5 minutes in a 8 hr game is too long.

And if game admins don't dumb down their games they get badmouthed on forums/facebook for being elitists and a$$holes for not accommodating their style of play.

Back to the good 'ol days of invite only I guess. It's a bummer to hear this.

I understand why invite only happens, but we need to be careful about how we handle both new players, and the more "casual" player group.

I've had a few opportunities to play at invite-only games where you know the crowd is good and everyone is "vetted" and they are enjoyable, but we need to consider why these types of games exist. In the realm of private games... Statements like "I reserve the right to vet all players" or "you are not on the roster until I approve you" are somewhat BS. Are you saying this because you are legitimatly afraid all the bad boyz in red digi-cam are going to show up and ruin your game, or is it because you and all your friends just want to play with familiar-face, "top tier opr8drrs".

I have a contingency of friends that would have a hard time getting into an invite-only game, not because they are bad boyz, but because they simply don't play regularily enough to become known and make the connections they need to get invited/"vetted".

If you're worried about the sport dieing, I'd say don't be afraid to play with fresh faces, and take the time to mentor new players. I agree that the responsibility to keep players in the game for more than two years (and to prevent the sport from dieing) falls on the shoulders of Milsim and the veteran player community.

ThunderCactus sounds dead on about the state of airsoft. Skirmisher numbers flourish every year, but then tend to either get bored and leave, or take it to a LARPing level.

The number of people using "legit/expensive" kit (NODs, Crye/LBT/Ops Core gear, legit optics and lights, rucks, overnight gear, rain/cold weather gear, etc) is going up here in Ontario, and that's the fast-and-dirty heuristic that I use for "is this player going to be sticking with airsoft for a while". That's not to say that a lot of good players don't play hard in just their jeans and 5-year-old condor vests, while a lot of new players splurge on kit in their first year of chairsofting. But it's a simple heuristic.

I can't speak for everyone, but the appeal of private games for me is that there will be a minimum level of competency among the people I'm playing with. I don't consider myself a long-time vet, but I land pretty heavily on the "I'm just here to LARP" side of the spectrum. The people attending these private games know what they're getting into, and know how to play along, so I can get immersed in my LARPing and enjoy myself.

However, there is some truth to wanting to play with familiar faces. I've trained with several different groups, and LARPing is so much more fun when you're on the same page as everyone around you. If I see a random team mate covering a corner, it's nice to be able to walk up behind them, put downward pressure on their shoulder, and know that they'll get down on a knee so we can high-low it.

I have certain expectations about the experience I'll get when I attend a "milsim", which are just based around how I enjoy playing. That expectation is relatively, but not unreasonably, high. I want to play in a milsim where people don't quit whenever they feel like it; are able to follow orders; have a teamwork mindset; have comms; don't cheat; can push themselves; come prepared for the experience/weather/length/whatever; and are able to have fun without needing to pull a trigger. This is basic stuff, that a game of vetted players is more likely to provide.

It's great to play alongside newbies and get to know them. That's how I've met many of my friends, and how I've personally grown as an airsofter. But it's a lot of money and effort to go into a milsim, and now that I know what I want, that's what I try to find. I don't always want to get out to a game just to potentially spend 18+ hours herding cats on my squad, or listening to people complain about guard/recce duty, or watching people walk to their cars at 1am. Sometimes it's just fun to join a game where I can relax, and "get some work done" with like-minded people.

But arguably the best part of private games, is that they do stuff that you can't do with completely open games. Because the "invited" players meet a minimum level of competency, these games are often more challenging, or can do things out of the ordinary. Events like that not only give me new and interesting experiences, but also allow me to learn a lot of new stuff. Most events I go to, I'm one of the most junior/inexperienced people there, and people teach me a lot.

Games like Deadfall couldn't work with walk ons that end up walking off (like I attempted to do at my first Deadfall). Blackline events wouldn't be the well oiled immersion/learning machines that they are with random non-committed people. You couldn't have random people "raid" another game to kidnap a command element like Blackline did at Delta's Pathfinder game (with Delta's permission, of course). Not just for the obvious reasons of "random people shouldn't be trusted with motor vehicles, zipties, and hoods" - but also because it took weeks of lead-up preparation, and was executed by very dedicated and teamwork-focused players with patience, perseverance, and communication. It's difficult to achieve that kind of immersion if everybody isn't on the same page.

Sorry for getting so off topic.

This weekend is everybody gets a trophy day.

That's why there are no more trophies at all, just those who kick ass and those who bitch out. That's what life is all about... that and beer probably. "Some other smart words".

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/02...g?v=1440623150

https://cdn3.bigcommerce.com/s-1ih2d...831621.jpg?c=2

Lot's o' trophies!

Airsofts popularity has increased exponentially.
The player base has grown.
The quality of the player and the game has diluted.
The Old guys who used to organize games we played were passionate about farming this hobby. They encompassed several strains of life into an event.
Camping, Camaraderie, Mentoring and mechanical aspects.
The game wasn't all about the game, NODs, Medic rulez sniper rules, blah.
Host and player came at the game weekend as active participants,
not provider and consumer.
maybe it sucks because, We stopped putting.

I would unironically rock either or both of these.

The team I play with hosts semi private games every Wednesday night. They are open to anyone to come, but we try to be very friendly to new players and new to the field players. It is also a great community that typically plays well together, but if there is someone (new or old) that isn't playing with integrity or good sportsmanship they will be asked to leave and not return. This helps keep it newb friendly, yet also enjoyable to everyone.


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It seems to be growing to me and with growth comes challenges. I've been playing for over 8 years. At first in a private field as my son was under age. We learned and fought as a group of son and dads. Until they were old enough to come out of the woods ( so to speak). We know have Clarington Woods as our home field and we take in both scrims and milsims at the field. We try at the scrims to provide leadership and basic com's examples and try to play by example encouraging the "new" player to follow a chain of command We try to invest in those around us and a be asset to those who are running the games, I believe it's working and that SOG would agree that "example" is a great teacher for the new player.